April 2011 Archives by thread

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Starting: Fri Apr 1 02:01:04 EST 2011
Ending: Sat Apr 30 08:00:00 EST 2011
Messages: 291

• [AusNOG] AusNOG list charter   AusNOG
• [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Bevan Slattery
  • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Keiran Holloway
    • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   james_hutchinson at idg.com.au
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Mark Stewart
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   David Mitchell
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Peter Childs
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Jones, Rick
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Peter Tiggerdine
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Mark Stewart
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Kristoffer Sheather - Cloud Central
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Peter Tiggerdine
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Matthew Maxwell
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Daniel Brown
      • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Daniel Hooper
  • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Andrew Fort
  • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Kristoffer Sheather - Cloud Central
    • [AusNOG] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nbn-tender-halted-over-price-gouging/story-e6frgakx-1226031765304   Peter Tiggerdine
• [AusNOG] Fiber cabling   hannah commodore
  • [AusNOG] Fiber cabling   Peter Tonoli
• [AusNOG] IPv4 Exhaustion Information   Elly Tawhai
  • [AusNOG] APNIC - 3 weeks of IPv4 left (was: IPv4 Exhaustion Information)   Julien Goodwin
    • [AusNOG] APNIC - 3 weeks of IPv4 left (was: IPv4 Exhaustion Information)   Geoff Huston
• [AusNOG] AusCERT Week in Review - Week Ending 01/04/2011 (AUSCERT#20073f686)   Jonathan Levine
• [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Bevan Slattery
  • [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Michael Kratz
    • [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Joseph Burford
      • [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Peter Tonoli
      • [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Kai
      • [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Rob Byrnes
      • [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Peter Tonoli
      • [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's NBN rebalancing proposal   Tristan Mercer
• [AusNOG] Weekly Routing Table Report   Routing Analysis Role Account
  • [AusNOG] Weekly Routing Table Report   Routing Analysis Role Account
  • [AusNOG] Weekly Routing Table Report   Routing Analysis Role Account
  • [AusNOG] Weekly Routing Table Report   Routing Analysis Role Account
  • [AusNOG] Weekly Routing Table Report   Routing Analysis Role Account
• [AusNOG] BGP Update Report   cidr-report at potaroo.net
  • [AusNOG] BGP Update Report   cidr-report at potaroo.net
  • [AusNOG] BGP Update Report   cidr-report at potaroo.net
  • [AusNOG] BGP Update Report   cidr-report at potaroo.net
  • [AusNOG] BGP Update Report   cidr-report at potaroo.net
• [AusNOG] APNIC 2011 Member and Stakeholder Survey Report: Last Call for Comments   Elly Tawhai
• [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
  • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Brent Paddon
  • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Mark Smith
    • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   PRK
  • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Ramsay, Paul
  • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Ramsay, Paul
  • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
    • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Jason Martin
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Colwell, Scott
    • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   James Troy
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Joshua Small
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   James Troy
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Greg M
      • [AusNOG] Looking for someone who has experience with Nextgen VPLS   Dale Shaw
• [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Grinceri
  • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Skeeve Stevens
    • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Grant Moritz
  • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Smith
    • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Smith
  • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   John Edwards
    • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Graham Maltby
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Michael Christie (micchris)
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Andrews
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Rohan Saldanha (rsaldanh)
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Ian Henderson
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Karl Auer
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Dobbins, Roland
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Brent Paddon
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Matthew Maxwell
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   John Edwards
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   roland at chan.id.au
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Matthew Maxwell
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   David N
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Dobbins, Roland
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Andrews
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Cameron
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Jones, Rick
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   John.Gibbins at csiro.au
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Brett O'Hara
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Jones, Rick
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Matt Shadbolt
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   jason andrade
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Joshua Lehman
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Pinkerton, Eric
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Joshua Lehman
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   James Fleming
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Samantha
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Craig Askings
      • [AusNOG] Who's with me? We need to start building the Infinternet straight away.   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] Who's with me? We need to start building the Infinternet straight away.   Daniel Trembath
      • [AusNOG] Who's with me? We need to start building the Infinternet straight away.   Daniel Trembath
      • [AusNOG] Who's with me? We need to start building the Infinternet straight away.   Bevan Slattery
      • [AusNOG] Who's with me? We need to start building the Infinternet straight away.   Damien Morris
      • [AusNOG] Who's with me? We need to start building the Infinternet straight away.   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Andrews
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Sam Silvester
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Dobbins, Roland
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Jones, Rick
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Dobbins, Roland
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Peter Tiggerdine
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   grenville armitage
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] IPv6 Addressing   Mark Andrews
• [AusNOG] AusNOG-05 Call For Presentations   Terry Manderson
• [AusNOG] Pacific Fibre dead?   Skeeve Stevens
  • [AusNOG] Pacific Fibre dead?   Davey Goode
    • [AusNOG] Pacific Fibre dead?   james_hutchinson at idg.com.au
• [AusNOG] CCIE Security Bootcamp   Warrick Mitchell
• [AusNOG] survey on RFD   Shishio Tsuchiya
• [AusNOG] Routing issues to Freemantle Media/Hostworks   Paul Gear
• [AusNOG] 8-24 Port VDSL DSLAMs   Nick Brown
• [AusNOG] DR = Vocus   Luke Iggleden
  • [AusNOG] DR = Vocus   Skeeve Stevens
• [AusNOG] AusCERT Week in Review - Week Ending 08/04/2011 (AUSCERT#20073f686)   Jonathan Levine
  • [AusNOG] AusCERT Week in Review - Week Ending 08/04/2011 (AUSCERT#20073f686)   Jonathan Levine
• [AusNOG] $20b feud with Telstra drove NBN's birth   Kai
  • [AusNOG] $20b feud with Telstra drove NBN's birth   Damien Morris
  • [AusNOG] $20b feud with Telstra drove NBN's birth   Steve Baxter
  • [AusNOG] $20b feud with Telstra drove NBN's birth   Narelle
    • [AusNOG] $20b feud with Telstra drove NBN's birth   Kai
• [AusNOG] Level 3 & Global Crossing getting hitched   John Allan
  • [AusNOG] Level 3 & Global Crossing getting hitched   Luke Iggleden
    • [AusNOG] [v6z] Re: Level 3 & Global Crossing getting hitched   Scott Howard
• [AusNOG] Powering a Cisco Nexus 7018   Damien Morris
  • [AusNOG] Powering a Cisco Nexus 7018   Thomason, Simon
    • [AusNOG] Powering a Cisco Nexus 7018   Damien Morris
  • [AusNOG] Powering a Cisco Nexus 7018   Lincoln Dale
• [AusNOG] APNIC v4 pool depletion   Gavin Tweedie
  • [AusNOG] APNIC v4 pool depletion   John Edwards
  • [AusNOG] APNIC v4 pool depletion   Julien Goodwin
• [AusNOG] 240v 1 x C14 to x 2 IC13 Y Split Power Cables - Short (Kinda Network related)   James Braunegg
  • [AusNOG] 240v 1 x C14 to x 2 IC13 Y Split Power Cables - Short (Kinda Network related)   Guy Ellis
• [AusNOG] Femtocells   James Troy
  • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Skeeve Stevens
    • [AusNOG] Femtocells   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Luke Iggleden
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Daniel Rose
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Skeeve Stevens
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Don Gould
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   James Troy
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Narelle
  • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Tony
    • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Narelle
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Matt S
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Richard Stephens
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Matt S
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Damien Morris
      • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Matthew Moyle-Croft
  • [AusNOG] Femtocells   Jeremy Visser
• [AusNOG] circuit issue in sydney   Daniel Kingshott
• [AusNOG] How do you label?   Aaron Weller // Crucial Paradigm
  • [AusNOG] How do you label?   Matthew Moyle-Croft
    • [AusNOG] How do you label?   John Allan
      • [AusNOG] How do you label?   Damien Morris
      • [AusNOG] How do you label?   Aaron Weller // Crucial Paradigm
  • [AusNOG] How do you label?   Damien Morris
• [AusNOG] WP now censoring   Bevan Slattery
  • [AusNOG] WP now censoring   Michael Kahl
• [AusNOG] [off-topic] Femtocells   Kai
  • [AusNOG] [off-topic] Femtocells [Way OT - Insurance.]   Don Gould
  • [AusNOG] [off-topic] Femtocells   Damien Morris
    • [AusNOG] [off-topic] Femtocells   Narelle
  • [AusNOG] [off-topic] Femtocells   Simon Thomason
• [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Tom Storey
  • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Bevan Slattery
    • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Quentin Rittman
  • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Karl Kloppenborg
  • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Mark Smith
  • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Chris Kawchuk
  • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Kai
  • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Samantha
    • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Damien Morris
      • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Mark Newton
  • [AusNOG] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   John.Gibbins at csiro.au
  • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Scott Howard
    • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Skeeve Stevens
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Peter Tiggerdine
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Skeeve Stevens
    • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Lincoln Dale
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Pinkerton, Eric
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Skeeve Stevens
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Michael Biber
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Skeeve Stevens
    • [AusNOG] [v6z] Why you shouldn't worry about switching to IPv6 now   Mark Andrews
• [AusNOG] How is IPv6 deployment going in the APNIC region?   Julien Goodwin
• [AusNOG] APNIC IPv4 Address Pool Reaches Final /8   Srinivas (Sunny) Chendi
• [AusNOG] NZ 3 strikes law passed   James Troy
• [AusNOG] Who has the most IPv6?   Skeeve Stevens
  • [AusNOG] Who has the most IPv6?   roland at chan.id.au
  • [AusNOG] Who has the most IPv6?   Peter Tiggerdine
  • [AusNOG] Who has the most IPv6?   Ryan Benson
    • [AusNOG] Who has the most IPv6?   Damien Morris
  • [AusNOG] Who has the most IPv6?   David Hughes
• [AusNOG] AusCERT Week in Review - Week Ending 15/04/2011 (AUSCERT#20073f686)   zane at auscert.org.au
• [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Cooper Ry Lees
  • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Richard Stephens
    • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Matthew Maxwell
  • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Dobbins, Roland
  • [AusNOG] [v6z] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Scott Howard
  • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Skeeve Stevens
    • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Simon Kong Win Chang
    • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Don Gould
  • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Narelle
  • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Pinkerton, Eric
  • [AusNOG] 30 Levels of Nat with Firewalls   Matthew Moyle-Croft
• [AusNOG] Fwd: [SAGE-NSW] NSW Chapter Meeting - Tues 19 April - Network optimisation topics (Silver Peak)   Stephen Gillies
• [AusNOG] FW: Wholesale Pricing Calculator   Skeeve Stevens
• [AusNOG] [OT] - Validity of facebook in a court scenario   James Troy
  • [AusNOG] [OT] - Validity of facebook in a court scenario   Daniel Rose
• [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Skeeve Stevens
  • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Matthew Maxwell
    • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Chris Kawchuk
      • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Matthew Maxwell
      • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Chris Kawchuk
      • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Matthew Maxwell
      • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Matthew Moyle-Croft
  • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   David Hughes
    • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Terry Manderson
      • [AusNOG] FW: [apnic-talk] IPv4 address exchange   Karl Auer
• [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Christopher Pollock
  • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Angelo Giuffrida
    • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Cameron Murray
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Andrew Paternoster
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Yin To Chu
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Cooper Ry Lees
    • [AusNOG] [v6z] Re: Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Scott Howard
  • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Lincoln Dale
    • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Matt S
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Ian Henderson
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   John Edwards
      • [AusNOG] [offtopic] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Damien Morris
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Shaun Ewing
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Matt S
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   James Troy
  • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Phillip Grasso
    • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Angelo Giuffrida
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Shain Singh
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Angelo Giuffrida
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Phillip Grasso
      • [AusNOG] Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Andrew Cox
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Re: Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Scott Howard
      • [AusNOG] [v6z] Re: Google DNS 8.8.8.8   Jeremy Visser
• [AusNOG] Some NBN pictures.   Brent Paddon
  • [AusNOG] Some NBN pictures.   Brent Paddon
    • [AusNOG] Some NBN pictures.   James Troy
      • [AusNOG] Some NBN pictures.   Brent Paddon
      • [AusNOG] Some NBN pictures.   David Hughes
      • [AusNOG] Some NBN pictures.   Brent Paddon
• [AusNOG] AusCERT Week in Review - Week Ending 21/04/2011 (AUSCERT#20073F686)   Zane Jarvis
• [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Stavros Patiniotis
  • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Tom Sykes
    • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Mark Smith
    • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Stavros Patiniotis
      • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Andrew Cox
      • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Mark Smith
      • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Stavros Patiniotis
      • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   Davey Goode
  • [AusNOG] DSLAM Dropout issues   David Lindon
• [AusNOG] Root Zone DNSSEC KSK Ceremony 5   Joe Abley
• [AusNOG] Victorian Peering Point   Joe Wooller
  • [AusNOG] Victorian Peering Point   Shaun Dwyer
• [AusNOG] FW: [ipv6-wg] Announcement: New IPv6 information videos available now   Skeeve Stevens
• [AusNOG] AusCERT Week in Review - Week Ending 29/04/2011 (AUSCERT#20073F686)   Richard Billington
• [AusNOG] DSL issue   James Troy
  • [AusNOG] DSL issue   James Troy
    • [AusNOG] DSL issue   James Troy
• [AusNOG] RailCorp Sydenham signalling failure report   Skeeve Stevens
  • [AusNOG] RailCorp Sydenham signalling failure report   Tom Sykes

Last message date: Sat Apr 30 08:00:00 EST 2011
Archived on: Thu Nov 14 11:25:50 EST 2013

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