[AusNOG] A Network Operator (was: Superloop NBN Outage)

[david at hughes.id]

Regarding the disagreement in the original thread about our definition of a "Network Operator", please let me have a go at providing some clarity.

If you simply purchase network link(s) from a provider on a retail basis then in the context of AusNOG you are an "end user".  Perhaps you are a sophisticated end user or even a reseller, but an end user none the less.  I appreciate that some people may purchase multiple retail links to form some connectivity between locations, but that would still be a customer of a network operator.

A network operator is responsible for the actual carriage of data during all or part of it's journey from the source to the destination.  Carriage Service Providers (such as VoIP providers and non-carrier ISPs) are viewed as Network Operators in our context as they are responsible for traffic as it passes through their infrastructure from the source and / or destination carrier networks.

That said, we do have many, many "end users" on the list who see great value in the content and the visibility into the operation and availability of our nation's networks.  They are most welcome on the list but clearly questions about individual retail services would be better asked of the provider selling the service.

And if you wish to debate this then please do so off-list.  Hopefully that won't be necessary, but it certainly wouldn't add value for the thousands of people on the list.


Regards,

David
...

> On 17 Jan 2022, at 11:27 pm, Noel Butler <noel.butler at ausics.net> wrote:
> 
> Your post comes as an end user, very simple.
> 
> On 17/01/2022 23:02, Christopher Hawker wrote:
> 
>> I don't think you understood the context of the post Noel. Definitely not looking for Whingepool. You're right, these groups have gone to shit due to people replying with useless garbage that has no relevance to the question being asked (refer to your last e-mail).
>>  
>  
> when your OT expect to be called out
>  
>> For the record, I do operate a network. Whether you own the infrastructure the network operates over, the type of network, the end user, all of that is irrelevant. I operate networks on behalf of my clients. As you may or may not know, AusNOG is here for
>> network operators to assist one another, not strictly "I am sending routes to Peer B however they are not sending back" type questions which may be news to you.
>>  
>  
> Actually sonny, yes, as I've been on this list since day dot, having, like a few long time regulars here, come over from the 'ol aussie list run by Andy at the time, and that's exactly what it is supposed to be
>  
> and I don't recall the board ever changing that, of course if they did and I missed it, no doubt Dave will let me know
>  
>  
>> One final question - if the group has gone to shit, why are you still here?
>  
> I have asked myself that question a few times when I read whingepool like posts
>  
>> CH.
>>  
>> PS: Thanks for the laugh, I needed it 😄
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> the problem is you posted this to a network operators list, however that seems to have gone to shit in recent years, I think the list you're looking for is user at whingepool.dev.null <mailto:user at whingepool.dev.null>
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Noel Butler
> 
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