[AusNOG] IPv6

Fri Mar 27 00:11:54 EST 2015

Hi Chris,
In my personal opinion....

You make alot of good points about Ipv6,especially about the backward
compatibility but there is no much point talking about it now - that bus
has already passed.

Everyone's networks are different so we are all going to have different way
to approach Ipv6 - For some this will be CGNAT, for some this will be
native IPv6, some this will 6rd, some this will be 464SLAT, and some will
stick their heads in the sand.

The main aim of everybody is happy 'paying' users with happy eyeballs and
growing customers.
I know my in-laws use Ipv6 on NBN without even knowing or caring - They
just care they can get to google/facebook which are 100% Ipv6 traffic.

The realistic options are Ipv6 deployment in some form or another.  That's
it.

This doesn't have to be a massive project with hundreds of people done in 1
month - It's a process not a leap.
Ipv4 is not going to be turned off tomorrow as Noel highlighted.

For starters, audit your devices - do they support Ipv6 now or need an
upgrade.  Flag it for next software upgrade if needed.
The next step - Speak to your upstream and get a Ipv6 bgp peering happening.
Next speak to your provider to get an allocation, or speak to apnic to get
a ipv6 allocation.
Start working your way out from your edge/core devices to enable Ipv6 and
establish a deployment plan.
Mandate that any new service should be Ipv6 enabled where possible as well
to save going backwards.
At this point - you are well on the way to a Ipv6 deployment with minimal
OPEX/CAPEX investment.
Trust me, Everyone is going to have problems with a ipv6 deployment with
varying degrees of difficulty but that's what vendor support is for and
ausnog to see if anyone else has found a way to get that square peg in that
round hole ;)

Next, Look at getting http://minopher.net.au enabled for Ipv6. ;)

The Ipv6 preparation and audit work will ensure that when the time does
come for Ipv6 only websites, consumers/companies are not complaining - Why
can't I access this porn website/service, and they are not changing
providers because you can't fix it in a couple of days as your CGNAT
solution ran out of IPs need a total ipv6 deployment.

Also with NBN - It's the perfect business case opportunity in a company to
establish that any NBN connections should be fully dual-stacked.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 11:13 PM, Chris Hurley <chris at minopher.net.au>
wrote:

> I could be wrong (and I have been before ;-), but the biggest mistake in
> IP6 was not making it backward compatible with IP4. Hence the resistance to
> take it up.
>
> Yes there are some good technical agruements with substance as to why we
> should make the quantum leap. But they forget the human lag factor. I.e
> it's not broken don't fix,  It costs money, where's my return etc.
>
> That being said and the fact we have now "exhausted" IP4 addresses, what
> are the realistic options? Bare in mind consumers/companies only really
> care about "Do I have internet access". They neither know or care about the
> IP. They just want their porn, don't laugh. Given the number of outside
> hours clients trying to get support all to true.
>
> Personally I thought the NBN was the perfect vehicle to mandate IP6, but
> the powers that be said you can run what ever you like eg AppleTalk for all
> we care. Seriously you want 21st Century tech but prepared to run old
> technology.
>
> Mind you people have been talking about this issue for many years.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Hurley BE (Elec), MBA
> Director
>
>
> ******************************************************
> Minopher Pty Ltd     Phone: 1300 730 531
> 15 Nevana Street     Fax: +61-3-9763 3309
> Scoresby,  3179 Victoria
>
> Australia
> ******************************************************
>
>
> From: Michael Biber <mbiber at ipv6forum.com.au>
> Organization: IPv6 Forum Australia
> Reply-To: <mbiber at ipv6forum.com.au>
> Date: Thursday, 26 March 2015 1:53 PM
> To: "'Beeson, Ayden'" <ABeeson at csu.edu.au>, <kris at cloudcentral.com.au>, "
> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise
>
> Here’s a list of IPv6 Only web sites.
>
> http://ipv6.cybernode.com/list-of-ipv6-only-sites
>
> It’s only reachable via IPv6 though 8^)
>
>
>
> I was told there are Indian government web sites and gaming servers that
> are only reachable via v6 but I can’t verify that. Also quite a few dark
> sites I imagine.
>
> Most everything is dual stacked.
>
>
>
> Mike Biber
>
> IPv6now
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] *On Behalf Of *Beeson, Ayden
> *Sent:* Thursday, 26 March 2015 9:58 AM
> *To:* 'kris at cloudcentral.com.au'; 'ausnog at lists.ausnog.net'
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise
>
>
>
> (Disclaimer: Apologies, I’m going to be “that guy” and argue against that
> line. Don’t take this email as a flame, it’s more about correcting a
> misconception that seems to be quite prevalent and I understand there are a
> lot of factors that go into deploying / not deploying IPv6 now that I will
> not cover.)
>
>
>
> That statement is part of the problem IMHO and I’ve seen it multiple times
> on this list and elsewhere.
>
>
>
> IPv6 won’t go anywhere until the majority get it turned on. It has no
> direct technical relation to IPv4 other than being the replacement for it.
> Blaming a lack of IPv6 deployment progress on “IPv4 not being broken yet”
> is self-defeating, it’s the same as saying “my water pipes still work even
> though they have a few big cracks leaking, why should the council replace
> them until the water completely stops flowing?” or “nobody else bothers to
> put rubbish in a bin, so I won’t either, plus I invented this new thing to
> add onto my shoes to make me higher to keep out of all the litter on the
> ground, everybody else needs to buy some now too”
>
>
>
> Unfortunately CGNAT is now a requirement for a lot of companies, due in
> large part to a lack of progress on IPv6, but it doesn’t go both ways. But
> as has been said before, most users don’t understand or care how their
> internet connection works, just that it does, so the onus is on the ISP’s
> etc. to push these things along for the benefit of everybody. Again as has
> been said, there is very little commercial incentive to do this, but it’s
> really going to be minimal capex to implement with very little additional
> opex spending so it shouldn’t be as big a cost issue as it may seem, at
> least for basic connectivity for servers etc.
>
>
>
> Obviously we can’t argue “don’t do CGNAT” now, we are well past that, but
> I would say that anybody looking at or doing CGNAT should at least have an
> IPv6 deployment plan they are actively progressing, even if it’s slowly.
>
>
>
> The problem with IPv4 is that we can continue to do CGNAT theoretically
> indefinitely, though the logging required will continue to increase and the
> port ranges that are allowed for per user will continue to shrink until it
> becomes practically untenable. The issue is in the meantime we are stifling
> innovation and strangling available uses for the internet. In the next few
> years we will see a continued explosion of devices that will need IPv6 to
> be able to truly be used to their full potential, but a lot of those will
> just continue to not work or be underutilised until the network under them
> has the capacity to handle them gracefully.
>
>
>
> On the topic of IPv6 only hosts, I have heard there are ISP’s in China and
> Europe that are doing this but I have nothing concrete, anybody know if
> that’s fact or not / have a link? I suspect given I can’t find any info at
> all it’s not real, but I’d be interested to know…
>
>
>
> TL;DR – IPv6 only works when everybody does IPv6, do CGNAT if you have to,
> but make it clear to your management (or to yourself) that’s it’s not a
> long term strategy and make sure you have some sort of IPv6 plan being
> worked on for everybody’s sake.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ayden Beeson
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] *On Behalf Of *Kristoffer Sheather @
> CloudCentral
> *Sent:* Thursday, 26 March 2015 8:50 AM
> *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise
>
>
>
> IPv6 won't go anywhere until IPv4 doesn't work anymore.  That day is not
> today despite the numerous arguments and flames I expect to receive
> subsequent to this message.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Kristoffer Sheather
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From*: "Scott Weeks" <surfer at mauigateway.com>
> *Sent*: Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:42 AM
> *To*: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject*: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Reduce the amount of data to zero - put this energy into
> > deploying IPv6 instead of CG-NAT. You know you should.
> > You know you can.
>
>
> :: Oh boy, I am so sick of people harping on like this. I
> :: challenge you to run one single internet customer IPv6
> :: only (no translations) and see how long it lasts. Just
>
>
> Dual stack is not doable? I thought that's what he meant
> by deploy IPv6. Maybe I need more beer? Again? ;-)
>
> scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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