[AusNOG] modern awards

Philip Loenneker philip.loenneker at tasmanet.com.au
Mon Aug 29 11:50:00 AEST 2022 

Thanks Terry and others.

The requirement for formal qualifications for the Professional Employees Award is frustrating in the world of IT which is far more organic than many sectors.


From: Michael Hobl <michael at hobl.com.au>
Sent: Monday, 29 August 2022 11:16 AM
To: Terry Sweetser <terry at ionetworks.com.au>
Cc: Philip Loenneker <philip.loenneker at tasmanet.com.au>; ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] modern awards

You don't often get email from michael at hobl.com.au<mailto:michael at hobl.com.au>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Furthermore, it’s hard enough getting a good NE in this market even with a high ceiling for compensation; any engineer worth their salt will already command above-award rates, so an award doesn't help you address this.

Soft perks like workplace culture and flexible working, even little things like parking, are going to be how you actually obtain (and retain) talented minds.


- Michael


On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 10:58 AM Terry Sweetser <terry at ionetworks.com.au<mailto:terry at ionetworks.com.au>> wrote:
Hi Philip,

Alas, this is where you will find a big gap in the structure of awards in Australia: very few Network Engineers qualify for IEAust/EA membership.

Have a look at the Professional Employees Award:

Refer to:
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/awards/awards-summary/ma000065-summary

(Copy Pasta)

The Professional Award covers employers mainly engaged in the information technology, medical research, quality auditing or telecommunications services industries and their employees who fit within the classifications of the award.
Employees are also covered if they perform professional engineering and scientific duties, unless another award with a more appropriate classification covers their employer.
The information technology industry means:

  *   designing and manufacturing computers, peripherals and software, and telecommunications equipment
  *   installing, repairing and maintaining computer systems
  *   computer consultancy services
  *   computer programming
  *   system analysis services
  *   designing, developing and maintaining online internet architecture and facilitating online content management, or
  *   work associated with any of the above.


Who the Professional Award doesn’t cover

The following employers and employees are not covered by the Professional Award:

  *   information technology employees who don’t have formal academic qualifications or sufficient experience to be a Certified Professional of the Australian Computer Society
  *   engineers who don’t have formal academic qualifications or sufficient experience to be a member of Engineers Australia
  *   scientists who don’t have formal academic qualifications and don’t qualify for membership in one of their professional bodies
  *   medical researchers who work for health services or higher education organisations as defined in the award
  *   quality auditors who don’t satisfy the educational and experience requirements set out in the award
  *   local government employees covered by another award
  *   employees who mainly do clerical and administrative work.



Terry Sweetser

Senior Engineer

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Shop 1, Level 1, 9 Sherwood Rd, Toowong, 4066

e. terry.sweetser at ionetworks.com.au<mailto:terry.sweetser at ionetworks.com.au>
m. 0447 069 725
p. 1300 124 816
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Experience and Knowledge, On-Call.


From: AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net>> on behalf of Philip Loenneker <philip.loenneker at tasmanet.com.au<mailto:philip.loenneker at tasmanet.com.au>>
Date: Monday, 29 August 2022 at 8:17 am
To: ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net> <ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net>>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] modern awards
Terry – would you mind expanding on your comment that “The award does NOT cover technologists and engineers”? Are you suggesting that there is a more suitable award for Network Engineers?

From: AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net>> On Behalf Of Terry Sweetser
Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2022 8:48 AM
To: ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] modern awards

Some people who received this message don't often get email from terry at ionetworks.com.au<mailto:terry at ionetworks.com.au>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

Hi NOGGERS,

I suggest a quick look at:
https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000041#P1634_133943

Applies (quoted):

For the purposes of clause 4<https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000041#P102_5334> telecommunications services industry means any business:
(a) whose principal function is a telecommunications service carrier;or
(b) whose principal function is a carriage service provider or a content service provider;or
(c) whose principal function is the supply of telecommunications services including value added telecommunications services;or
(d) whose principal function is incidental,ancillary or complementary to the businesses referred to in clauses 4.2(a)<https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000041#P106_5805>,4.2(b)<https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000041#P107_5876> and 4.2(c)<https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000041#P108_5968>;or
(e) which supplies labour to a business in the telecommunications services industry on a labour hire basis in respect of any such labour hire employees while engaged in the performance of work for a business in the telecommunications services industry.
IANAL, but B and D look close “enough” for webhosting companies.  The award does NOT cover technologists and engineers.

And of course, read the NES at
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/awardmod/download/nes.pdf


TCS


From: AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net>> on behalf of Rob Thomas <xrobau at gmail.com<mailto:xrobau at gmail.com>>
Date: Saturday, 27 August 2022 at 8:33 am
To: Greg Lipschitz <glipschitz at summitinternet.com.au<mailto:glipschitz at summitinternet.com.au>>
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net> <ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net>>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] modern awards
Oh, and the link to download the actual PDF is https://portal.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/business-equipment-award-ma000021-pay-guide.pdf.aspx - summary is $21.94 to $27.75.

--Rob


On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 at 08:30, Rob Thomas <xrobau at gmail.com<mailto:xrobau at gmail.com>> wrote:
I feel it's 100% on topic, and whilst I don't have any award employees here in au, EXTREMELY useful to know the right one to use when we need it!

Thanks Greg and Nick.

--Rob


On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 at 08:17, Greg Lipschitz <glipschitz at summitinternet.com.au<mailto:glipschitz at summitinternet.com.au>> wrote:
Hi Nick

I would have said that that is the wrong award as it’s for Retail. (Think shop assistant etc)

Perhaps look at
MA000021


Examples of employees covered by the Business Equipment Award include:

  *   technical employees and technicians
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/awards/awards-summary/ma000021-summary

That seems more appropriate.

Cheers
Greg

Greg Lipschitz​
 |
Founder & CEO
 |
Summit Internet
glipschitz at summitinternet.com.au<mailto:glipschitz at summitinternet.com.au>
summitinternet.com.au<http://summitinternet.com.au>
1300 049 749<tel:1300%20049%20749>
Unit 2, 31-39 Norcal Road, Nunawading VIC 3131<https://www.google.com/maps?cid=12522583051503623677&_ga=2.149009334.1057584350.1554770858-1081443428.1554770858>
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________________________________
From: AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net>> on behalf of Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards at gmail.com<mailto:nick.z.edwards at gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2022 10:05:01 PM
To: ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net> <ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at ausnog.net>>
Subject: [AusNOG] modern awards

Hi,
Just been asked to ensure staff are paid at correct rates, I am satisfied they are, however one guy has questioned it, he's not making a fuss, but it's got me thinking, so I thought I'd ask the community here who surely would know, before I go contacting and waiting 3 months for a reply from FWA - before this dude just make a fuss :now we have a union run govt ->
This is a webhosting company, only 6 employees, the guy is one of 3 helpdesk tech support CSR's,  he questions he is in the correct award, we have him under MA000041 and cust contact  level 1 (he has no special qualifications and doesnt have server level access, your typical run of the mill tech support dude)

Anyone see this as a problem?
OFF list replies welcome, since I think this might exceed the list charter, to which I apologise for in advance.
Ed
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