[AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.

[David Treacy]

I’ve dealt with a few vendors as the reseller in the middle.  Never liked
the idea of the back sell and have gone in pretty hard for the customer.



I’ve found the “back sell” part of the support can be very negotiable.
 I’ve gotten 12 months down to 3 or 6, and had the type of support reduced
to the lowest level ie a software only, limited support.    And had the
forward support as per your requirement.



Usually this was for product that was owned by the customer the whole time,
but had support lapse for a few years.



Cheers,



Dave



*From:* AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net> *On Behalf Of *Peter
Tiggerdine
*Sent:* Friday, 27 April 2018 11:44 AM
*To:* Richard Bayliss <rbayliss at arista.com>
*Cc:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.



Think we're getting a little off topic here.



The issue is weather back charging a customer on a  supoort/maintenance
contract is okay.



The device was purchased second hand. The vendor is charging for the
previous 18months plus the 12months forward in the quote for the support
contract.

Regards,

Peter Tiggerdine





On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:40 Richard Bayliss <rbayliss at arista.com> wrote:

Fair enough, clearly as I am not a lawyer I was confused by the wording in
the ACCC website.


Exceptions to guarantees

[..]

Rights to a repair, replacement, refund, cancellation or compensation do
not apply to items:

   - [..]
   - bought as a one-off from a private seller, for example at a garage
   sale or fete (but you do have rights to full title, undisturbed possession
   and no unknown debts or extra charges)



I’ll leave further debate to those that have more qualifications than me in
this arena.



Cheers

Rich


On 27 Apr 2018, at 11:28, Ben Buxton <bb.ausnog at bb.cactii.net> wrote:



Nonsense, the ACL applies to second hand goods also
<https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Consumer%20Guarantees%20A%20guide%20for%20consumers_0.pdf>.
(section 5 / page 11)



Where you're confused is that whilst the private seller has no obligations
under the ACL, the original vendor's obligations still stand.



BB





On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:01 AM Richard Bayliss <rbayliss at arista.com>
wrote:

The ACCC consumer guarantee states it doesn’t apply to second hand (private
sales) goods, which is the scenario the OP stated.



Cheers

Rich


On 27 Apr 2018, at 10:32, Ben Buxton <bb.ausnog at bb.cactii.net> wrote:



On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:15 AM Karen Hargreave <karen at iamunique.net.au>
wrote:

So we then sit and watch as the price for everything starts to go through
the roof further than it has. Previously they have been able to sell
equipment, and then the contracts. The contracts cover the staff and any
additional costs that may arise or pays for them to send out people to deal
with issues.


Are you trying to justify why vendors should not have to comply with
Australian law?



I'm not making a proposal or theorising - this is how the law has been for
the last 8 years or so.



If they are no longer able to charge for the contracts, then the price will
be just added on.



They make plenty of money from contracts with NBD, etc benefits. At least
you'll be able to know exact TCO from the start, though other manufacturers
complying haven't jacked up prices noticeably since the ACL.



In the case of second hand equipment, wouldn't the responsibility be on the
purchaser to have more of an idea on what they are getting? Otherwise,
perhaps having people check out the equipment prior to starting a contract
and then going from there...  if you want to look back at the insurance
analogy, then if your car is off the road for a bit and you get it insured
again, you need to send through pics of it usually with a newspaper or
something with the date on it so they know what they are covering.



Insurance is not a comparable analogy. Your business insurance already
covers insurable events outside of vendor maintenance contracts.



Fixing faulty hardware and software falls under the ACL and applies to both
new and second hand products, regardless of the support status now or by
the previous owner.




Sent from my iPad



Let me guess - you bought Applecare?



BB



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