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--></style></head><body lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’ve dealt with a few vendors as the reseller in the middle. Never liked the idea of the back sell and have gone in pretty hard for the customer. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’ve found the “back sell” part of the support can be very negotiable. I’ve gotten 12 months down to 3 or 6, and had the type of support reduced to the lowest level ie a software only, limited support. And had the forward support as per your requirement. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Usually this was for product that was owned by the customer the whole time, but had support lapse for a few years. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dave</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> AusNOG <<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Tiggerdine<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 27 April 2018 11:44 AM<br><b>To:</b> Richard Bayliss <<a href="mailto:rbayliss@arista.com">rbayliss@arista.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Vendors back charging on support and maintenance.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Think we're getting a little off topic here. </p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The issue is weather back charging a customer on a supoort/maintenance contract is okay.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The device was purchased second hand. The vendor is charging for the previous 18months plus the 12months forward in the quote for the support contract. </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br><br>Peter Tiggerdine<br><br> </p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 11:40 Richard Bayliss <<a href="mailto:rbayliss@arista.com">rbayliss@arista.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Fair enough, clearly as I am not a lawyer I was confused by the wording in the ACCC website.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid #f3f3f3 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 4.0pt 0cm"><h2 style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.4pt;margin-left:0cm;border:none;padding:0cm;box-sizing:border-box"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:normal">Exceptions to guarantees</span><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></h2></div><p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.4pt;margin-left:0cm;box-sizing:border-box">[..]</p><p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:9.4pt;margin-left:0cm;box-sizing:border-box">Rights to a repair, replacement, refund, cancellation or compensation do not apply to items:</p><ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal" style="box-sizing:border-box">[..]</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="box-sizing:border-box">bought as a one-off from a private seller, for example at a garage sale or fete (but you do have rights to full title, undisturbed possession and no unknown debts or extra charges)</li></ul></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I’ll leave further debate to those that have more qualifications than me in this arena.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Rich</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On 27 Apr 2018, at 11:28, Ben Buxton <<a href="mailto:bb.ausnog@bb.cactii.net" target="_blank">bb.ausnog@bb.cactii.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Nonsense, the ACL <a href="https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Consumer%20Guarantees%20A%20guide%20for%20consumers_0.pdf" target="_blank">applies to second hand goods also</a>. (section 5 / page 11)</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Where you're confused is that whilst the private seller has no obligations under the ACL, the original vendor's obligations still stand.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">BB</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 11:01 AM Richard Bayliss <<a href="mailto:rbayliss@arista.com" target="_blank">rbayliss@arista.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The ACCC consumer guarantee states it doesn’t apply to second hand (private sales) goods, which is the scenario the OP stated.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Rich</p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On 27 Apr 2018, at 10:32, Ben Buxton <<a href="mailto:bb.ausnog@bb.cactii.net" target="_blank">bb.ausnog@bb.cactii.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:15 AM Karen Hargreave <<a href="mailto:karen@iamunique.net.au" target="_blank">karen@iamunique.net.au</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">So we then sit and watch as the price for everything starts to go through the roof further than it has. Previously they have been able to sell equipment, and then the contracts. The contracts cover the staff and any additional costs that may arise or pays for them to send out people to deal with issues. </p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>Are you trying to justify why vendors should not have to comply with Australian law?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I'm not making a proposal or theorising - this is how the law has been for the last 8 years or so. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div id="m_-4594664930368621985m_-598944294988658081m_2106276024261547127AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">If they are no longer able to charge for the contracts, then the price will be just added on. </p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">They make plenty of money from contracts with NBD, etc benefits. At least you'll be able to know exact TCO from the start, though other manufacturers complying haven't jacked up prices noticeably since the ACL.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div id="m_-4594664930368621985m_-598944294988658081m_2106276024261547127AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">In the case of second hand equipment, wouldn't the responsibility be on the purchaser to have more of an idea on what they are getting? Otherwise, perhaps having people check out the equipment prior to starting a contract and then going from there... if you want to look back at the insurance analogy, then if your car is off the road for a bit and you get it insured again, you need to send through pics of it usually with a newspaper or something with the date on it so they know what they are covering.</p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Insurance is not a comparable analogy. Your business insurance already covers insurable events outside of vendor maintenance contracts.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Fixing faulty hardware and software falls under the ACL and applies to both new and second hand products, regardless of the support status now or by the previous owner.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div id="m_-4594664930368621985m_-598944294988658081m_2106276024261547127AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><br>Sent from my iPad</p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Let me guess - you bought Applecare?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">BB</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>AusNOG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>