[AusNOG] All Melbourne -> Melbourne Traffic Routing via Sydney with TPG/PIPE/Tronic
Jay Dixon
jaybobo at gmail.com
Wed May 10 14:29:00 EST 2017
looks fine here! our first hops seem quite different to yours though,
sounds more like an issue with your reseller than with TPG/AAPT/Pipe
themselves
Tracing route to bundle-150.bdr02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au [114.31.196.55]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 4 ms xxxx
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms xxxx
3 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms xxxx
4 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms
au-vi-1175-ipg-01-eth-trunk2.2005.tpgi.com.au [203.220.216.29]
5 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms nme-sot-dry-wgw1-be-20.tpgi.com.au
[203.219.155.72]
6 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 203-219-107-202.static.tpgi.com.au
[203.219.107.202]
7 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 119.225.19.209
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 59.154.142.238
10 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms bundle-150.bdr02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au
[114.31.
196.55]
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Brad Evans <brad at delion.com.au> wrote:
> Could simply be that they don't peer with Vocus in Melbourne. How about
> other networks? Telstra, Optus, etc. I saw a similar thing with TPG/PIPE
> routing via WA to reach Vocus a couple of years back.
>
> -Brad
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Sam
> McLeod
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 May 2017 2:24 PM
> To: Jay Dixon <jaybobo at gmail.com>
> Cc: <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] All Melbourne -> Melbourne Traffic Routing via
> Sydney with TPG/PIPE/Tronic
>
> Thanks for the info Jay,
>
> What does a traceroute to say to 114.31.196.55 look like?
>
>
> ~# traceroute 103.75.204.2
> traceroute to 103.75.204.2 (103.75.204.2), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
>
> 1 <redacted> 2.017 ms 1.055 ms 0.918 ms
> 2 <redacted> 0.305 ms 0.340 ms 0.230 ms
> 3 ve2057.rv-376flinders-cer-01.tpg-telecom.net (203.192.88.161) 1.112
> ms 1.943 ms 0.684 ms
> 4 ve100.rv-376flinders-mlx-01.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.204)
> 10.524 ms 10.549 ms 10.703 ms
> 5 eth10-7.rn-400harris-mlx-03.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.170)
> 10.563 ms 11.888 ms 10.567 ms
> 6 eth2-1.rn-639gardeners-mlx-02.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.25)
> 10.720 ms 10.835 ms 10.719 ms
> 7 ve101.rn-639gardeners-cer-01.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.201)
> 10.723 ms 10.621 ms 10.739 ms
> 8 syd-apt-ros-wgw1-te-0-0-1-2.tpg.com.au (203.161.139.242) 11.269 ms
> 12.102 ms 11.193 ms
> 9 203-219-107-198.static.tpgi.com.au (203.219.107.198) 11.372 ms
> 11.656 ms 11.388 ms
> 10 119.225.216.17 (119.225.216.17) 10.844 ms 10.935 ms 10.858 ms
> 11 * * *
> 12 * * *
> 13 * * *
> 14 * 59.154.142.40 (59.154.142.40) 11.235 ms 11.064 ms
> 15 59.154.142.42 (59.154.142.42) 12.164 ms
> 220.101.73.82 (220.101.73.82) 11.906 ms 11.733 ms
> 16 bundle-108.cor03.syd03.nsw.vocus.net.au (114.31.192.84) 13.164 ms
> 220.101.73.82 (220.101.73.82) 13.246 ms 14.214 ms
> 17 bundle-104.cor02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.192.61) 13.122 ms
> bundle-100.cor02.mel07.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.177) 12.885 ms
> bundle-108.cor01.syd04.nsw.vocus.net.au (114.31.192.86) 21.114 ms
> 18 bundle-100.cor02.mel07.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.177) 13.721 ms
> 13.934 ms 13.948 ms
> 19 bundle-150.bdr02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.55) 19.819 ms
> ether8-cor1-mel3.bdr1.mel3.unitiwireless.com (103.75.204.2) 22.436
> ms !N
> bundle-150.bdr02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.55) 15.036 ms
>
> --
> Sam McLeod
> @s_mcleod | smcleod.net
>
> Words are my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of my
> employer or partners.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 10 May 2017, at 02:15 PM, Jay Dixon wrote:
> > FWIW we're on a TPG/AAPT connection here and our routing is fine we
> > were on a PIPE/TPG connection at the previous office and i never noticed
> any issues with it.
> >
> > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Sam McLeod <ausnog at smcleod.net> wrote:
> >> All I can say is wow - I've had tens, upon tens of responses to my post!
> >>
> >> Thank you for the information that those of you who have contacted
> >> me have provided, it's certainly painted a consistently clear
> >> picture for me that resonates with my personal experiences of
> >> dealing with said companies.
> >>
> >> As most replies were sent to me directly I shall obviously respect
> >> peoples privacy by not responding with their comments in the mailing
> >> list, however the general summary from what I'm hearing from people
> >> who have emailed me is:
> >>
> >> * "TPG / AAPT / PIPE are not trustworthy and are likely BSing you /
> >> pulling the wool over your eyes."
> >> * "TPG / AAPT / PIPE / Tronic's routes do indeed look very wrong"
> >> and the situation I've described is "not good routing behaviour."
> >> * Other customers in Adelaide and Brisbane amongst others experience
> >> the same routing issues with TPG / AAPT / PIPE or Tronic.
> >> * They appear "not to have paid for a Melbourne POP/POI and are
> >> cheaping out on their network design."
> >> * Several responses were that people are in the works or about to
> >> "cancel their connections with them."
> >> * People have experiences "City -> Sydney -> Original City routing
> >> from PIPE... within their own rack in the same DC."
> >> * Multiple responses stating that after investigation "TPG/PIPE or
> >> Tronic's routing is 'broken' or 'insane'."
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sam McLeod
> >> @s_mcleod | smcleod.net
> >>
> >> Words are my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of
> >> my employer of partners.
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 10 May 2017, at 01:15 PM, Sam McLeod wrote:
> >> > Hi AusNOG,
> >>
> >> I was wondering if anyone else uses TPG/PIPE/Tronic in Melbourne or
> >> another major city and has any input on this.
> >>
> >> Essentially all our traffic is backhauled all the way up from
> >> Melbourne to Sydney and back, even if it’s destined for Melbourne.
> >>
> >> I've been told by TPG/PIPE/Tronic (Tronic is a reseller of TPG/PIPE)
> >> that this is on purpose / by design:
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> “This is by design …
> >>
> >> When you get a connection with PIPE this is connected to their
> >> Sydney Data Center as this is their main core DC.
> >> Being the main core it has more bandwidth and all the main local and
> >> international connections are directly connected there.
> >> Where the Melbourne data center you peer to Sydney first before
> >> going out most of these links.
> >>
> >> So we are told the extra latency from user to DC is worth it because
> >> from DC out you’ll get lower latency and better bandwidth available.”
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Which makes no sense to us as engineers as that’s not really how
> >> networks or the internet works, we've even have services directly
> >> from PIPE in the past which wasn't backhauled via Sydney.
> >>
> >> This (along with peering) makes routing both nationally and
> >> internationally, for example a route that goes out our Vocus link to
> >> other ISPs here in Melbourne is 4-6 hops, whereas TPG/PIPE/Tronic is
> >> anywhere from 18 to 26 hops.
> >>
> >> In addition to the odd network design, we experience weekly outages
> >> to TPG/PIPE/Tronic’s fibre services with devices / hops within their
> >> network failing and packets disappearing, when the reseller has
> >> logged tickets with TPG/PIPE the results have been one of two things
> >> 1) (The most common) – there were no problems or 2) There was a
> >> problem that affected traffic (no further information).
> >>
> >> So as you can imagine, this is a bit frustrating, especially when
> >> we’ve been informed by our reseller that TPG/PIPE take 10 day to
> >> respond to a sev 1 production outage ticket that’s been logged with
> them.
> >>
> >> Now we’ve been told by our reseller that we’re absolutely not
> >> allowed to log tickets directly with TPG/PIPE and must go through
> >> them and as we’re still within contract we’ve got our hands tied to a
> certain degree.
> >>
> >> I’m not interested in having a whinge at TPG/PIPE/Tronic here, I’m
> >> genuinely interested in finding out if others have these problems as
> >> well and taking on any advice as to mitigating all the issues this
> >> causes.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sam McLeod
> >>
> >> Words are my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of
> >> my employer of partners.
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________
> >> > AusNOG mailing list
> >> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AusNOG mailing list
> >> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
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