[AusNOG] NBNco: "Let's start competing with our customers!"

[Paul Brooks]

On 17/09/2015 7:56 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:
> I am saying that while the CVC should be like $2.... if they aggregated their PoI's,
> you'd need a lot less because it would scale much much more and it would actually
> costs less.

Methinks you're confusing topology with charging model. If you negotiated your
wholesale backhaul provider to just add up all the traffic on all the POI ports and
charge you for the aggregate, rather than per physical port, it wouldn't matter how
many actual POIs there were.

This whole mess also seems to hang on two assumptions:
1) every ISP needs to service the whole national footprint
2) every ISP needs to charge the same uniform retail price all over the footprint.

Are either of these true?





>
>
>
>
> ...Skeeve
>
>
> --
>
> Skeeve Stevens - The ISP Guy - Internet Provider SME
>
> Email: skeeve at theispguy.com <mailto:skeeve at theispguy.com> ; Cell: +61(0)414 753 383
>
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>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 11:15 PM, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com
> <mailto:markzzzsmith at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     On 16 Sep 2015 21:51, "Skeeve Stevens" <skeeve+ausnog at theispguy.com
>     <mailto:skeeve%2Bausnog at theispguy.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     > Why do that NBNCo?... just go back to the original PoI design and make it
>     easier/cheaper rather than 7000 poi's... THAT is why it is expensive for the
>     smaller guys.... shebus.
>     >
>
>     So you think NBNco's CVC and AVC charges are cheap?
>
>     How is carrying data on their network to one of 14 POIs going to be cheaper that
>     hot potatoing it out one of 121 POIs where *you* then get to choose the POI
>     interconnect/wholesale provider, who may also provide a cheaper POI aggregation
>     service so you don't have to literally connect to 121 POIs if you don't want to.
>
>     Again, why *must* you directly connect to a POI, making you think that 14 POIs
>     is better than 121?
>
>     In other words, you want to be a wholesale lever customer, but want the
>     government/NBNco to wear the wholesale capital costs? They're not going to do
>     that unless they get a commercial return for doing so. In other words, you're
>     going to pay, one way or another, because TINSTAAFL.
>
>     So if cost of POI connection is the only important criteria, then clearly 14 is
>     also way, way too many. Who wants to have 14 routers/switches when you could
>     have one? Isn't the ideal number of POIs, cost wise, 1 POI for the whole of
>     Australia?
>
>     Actually cost wise, theoretically it would be better for the government to do
>     everything - they can theoretically get scales of economy that no private
>     company can get and they can borrow at better rates than any private company can
>     because they're borrowing against the country.
>
>     So perhaps the ideal number of POIs is 0.
>
>     > C'mon... who is advising these guys... do we have a new decent Comms Minister
>     we can appear for sanity to?
>     >
>     >
>     > ...Skeeve
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     >
>     > Skeeve Stevens - The ISP Guy - Internet Provider SME
>     >
>     > Email: skeeve at theispguy.com <mailto:skeeve at theispguy.com> ; Cell: +61(0)414
>     753 383 <tel:%2B61%280%29414%20753%20383>
>     >
>     > Skype: skeeve; Blog: TheISPGuy.com ; Facebook: TheISPGuy
>     >
>     > Linkedin: /in/skeeve ; Expert360: Profile
>     >
>     >
>     > On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 7:20 PM, <ausftth at mail.com <mailto:ausftth at mail.com>>
>     wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Not content with their monopoly position and the mess they made so far, the
>     NBNco now wants to compete for POI backhaul with it's own customers too.
>     >>
>     >> "In a speech to the National Press Club today, Morrow said around 40 of the
>     NBN's national 121 points of interconnect (PoI) are currently too expensive for
>     smaller ISPs to reach.
>     >>
>     >> Morrow has accepted the NBN could have to play a role in forcing the hand of
>     the market, or stepping up if it turns out no one else is willing to go to some
>     locations."
>     >>
>     >> Now, I'm all for lower backhaul costs, but surely there would have been
>     better ways to go about this than this sudden change of heart. It's like some
>     bloke at the NBNco found an Econ 101 textbook, happened upon the definition of
>     regulatory uncertainty and came up with the brilliant idea of field testing the
>     concept.
>     >>
>     >> Source:
>     http://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-wants-to-cut-access-costs-for-smaller-isps-409244
>     >>
>     >> Jared
>     >>
>     >>
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