[AusNOG] Data retention

Tue Oct 13 12:57:23 EST 2015

On 13 October 2015 at 12:46, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
<Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I wasn't trying to get stuck into the moral grounds of this.
>
> I am looking at normal  people  (no IT background)   at home, who use things like chrome cast or even now Netflix and other internet services.
>
> Who hear the hype ?? about data retention or just hear government spying on everything you do on the internet.
> Add that to but this router at Harvey Norman or Bing Lee or your local IT shop, turn on VPN to ??? (some place not Australia) and is good again.
>

I think this thing will make accessing a VPN as simple as it could possibly be.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keezel-online-freedom-for-every-device-everywhere#/

> Especially when our ex Telco minister (now PM) and our pollies are coming out and saying this is a legal process.
>
> A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 11:55 AM
> To: Mister Pink <misterpink at gmail.com>
> Cc: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data retention
>
> On 13 October 2015 at 10:00, Mister Pink <misterpink at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 'privacy advocate' is a lofty term for people who just want to torrent
>> without wanting Dallas Buyers Club letters.
>>
>
> This coming from somebody who has decided to hide their identity by using a fake email address ....
>
>
>
>> I'm not judging those people, but using a VPN in reaction to the data
>> retention laws for the most part belies the problem they are trying to
>> solve, and calling that 'Privacy' pollutes the term for people with
>> more legitimate causes.
>>
>> In effect (unless you roll your own) it means you trust a cheap vpn
>> provider in a random country more than your own Gov't?  and if your
>> VPN provider of choice isn't already selling your data to data
>> brokers, they probably will be soon.
>>
>> If you absolutely want privacy on the internet, then you need
>> anonymity, and for that I would recommend TOR rather than a vpn, or if
>> you are really paranoid, TOR over a VPN from Mcdonalds Wifi with a
>> Linux ISO on a thumbdrive from a disposable laptop, but then you're
>> not downloading pirate movies.
>>
>> Lets agree on this list to call a spade a spade, and not concede moral
>> high ground to people who may not deserve it...
>>
>>
>> On 13 October 2015 at 09:22, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
>> <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Most of my friends, mainly IT literate are thinking vpn. Not a good
>>> sampling for the general public.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But you have pollie’s pushing VPN’s and legal (!)  avoidance
>>>
>>> http://scott-ludlam.greensmps.org.au/campaigns/stopdataretention#prot
>>> ect
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and I believe its quiet easy to setup routers now a days with VPN’s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The above link even suggests VPN’s for phone. Hadn’t thought of that one!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m think it’s going to be more than a fringe, maybe not an
>>> avalanche, but it would be interesting to track…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Geordie Guy [mailto:elomis at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, 12 October 2015 4:16 PM
>>> To: Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com>;
>>> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data retention
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> What's your end goal? If it is to avoid the new datarention going
>>> into effect tomorrow, using a VPN isnt going to change what is being
>>> recorded on you. Dataretention is capturing Email headers on ISP
>>> (australian) email addresses, which a VPN wont change, and the IP
>>> assigned to your session when you connect (either via ADSL, NBN, 3/4G
>>> etc), which again, a VPN wont change.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Few people are just using a VPN to avoid retention most are ensuring
>>> they don't use ISP email, and deploy other encryption heavily.  Done
>>> right (and it's not that difficult), the only audit trail you leave
>>> is quite boring - all data is from the same IP, to the same IP, and encrypted.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> VPN also introduces a lot of other issues such as latency and GEOIP
>>> breakages that it reduces the end user experience of the internet, so
>>> for most people, pumping all their data through an international VPN
>>> is going to make using the internet unjoyful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How are GEOIP breakages a bad thing? Most people using VPNs before
>>> data retention were doing it explicitly to break IP geolocation.
>>> Latency is similarly not a drama, particularly in circumstances where
>>> people are using carriers that pick losers on a TCP port by TCP port
>>> basis and actually get a net experience improvement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The VPN from my phone transparently routes all my traffic via New Zealand.
>>> I don't notice any difference.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then there is the whole issue of complication, what % of australian
>>> users have the technical ability to set up a VPN?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The one I use on my phone processed a payment, took me to the App
>>> Store to download their client, I picked a country from a list of
>>> flags.  The experience was infinitely easier most other tasks I've performed this week.
>>> This is progressing in the same vein as everything else - there's
>>> money to be made if you present a compelling use case (would you like
>>> Netflix to think you're American?) and price it correctly (well
>>> Netflix will think you're American if you give me $3.95 a month and click here).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would put that in the single digit percentage, and then what % of
>>> thoes will actually set up a VPN? Again I would guess maybe 10% if you're lucky?
>>> So worst case maybe a 0.5% increase in international traffic? That's
>>> not even factoring in how much was international traffic to begin
>>> with which wouldnt increase international usage anyway, just change how its coming in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The idea that this is hampered by difficulty and poor experience is wrong.
>>> It hasn't always been wrong, setting up a VPN was a new and hard
>>> thing for people not all that long ago, but the Internet has done
>>> what the Internet does and people have made it easy to set up with easy payment options.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --Damian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:14 AM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
>>> <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I see a lot of privacy advocacy groups recommending using VPN out of
>>> australia. I wonder where can we see easily the change to from local
>>> traffic to international traffic.
>>>
>>> So I have friends who are thinking of just setting up a vpn to take
>>> all their traffic overseas including access to local sites, like smh
>>> commbank etc etc.
>>>
>>> My presumption we double up on Intl traffic outbound and then inbound !
>>>
>>> A
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>>
>>
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