[AusNOG] Data retention

Tue Oct 13 12:46:41 EST 2015

Hi

I wasn't trying to get stuck into the moral grounds of this. 

I am looking at normal  people  (no IT background)   at home, who use things like chrome cast or even now Netflix and other internet services.

Who hear the hype ?? about data retention or just hear government spying on everything you do on the internet.
Add that to but this router at Harvey Norman or Bing Lee or your local IT shop, turn on VPN to ??? (some place not Australia) and is good again.

Especially when our ex Telco minister (now PM) and our pollies are coming out and saying this is a legal process.

A

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 11:55 AM
To: Mister Pink <misterpink at gmail.com>
Cc: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data retention

On 13 October 2015 at 10:00, Mister Pink <misterpink at gmail.com> wrote:
> 'privacy advocate' is a lofty term for people who just want to torrent 
> without wanting Dallas Buyers Club letters.
>

This coming from somebody who has decided to hide their identity by using a fake email address ....

> I'm not judging those people, but using a VPN in reaction to the data 
> retention laws for the most part belies the problem they are trying to 
> solve, and calling that 'Privacy' pollutes the term for people with 
> more legitimate causes.
>
> In effect (unless you roll your own) it means you trust a cheap vpn 
> provider in a random country more than your own Gov't?  and if your 
> VPN provider of choice isn't already selling your data to data 
> brokers, they probably will be soon.
>
> If you absolutely want privacy on the internet, then you need 
> anonymity, and for that I would recommend TOR rather than a vpn, or if 
> you are really paranoid, TOR over a VPN from Mcdonalds Wifi with a 
> Linux ISO on a thumbdrive from a disposable laptop, but then you're 
> not downloading pirate movies.
>
> Lets agree on this list to call a spade a spade, and not concede moral 
> high ground to people who may not deserve it...
>
>
> On 13 October 2015 at 09:22, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker 
> <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
>>
>> Most of my friends, mainly IT literate are thinking vpn. Not a good 
>> sampling for the general public.
>>
>>
>>
>> But you have pollie’s pushing VPN’s and legal (!)  avoidance
>>
>> http://scott-ludlam.greensmps.org.au/campaigns/stopdataretention#prot
>> ect
>>
>>
>>
>> and I believe its quiet easy to setup routers now a days with VPN’s
>>
>>
>>
>> The above link even suggests VPN’s for phone. Hadn’t thought of that one!
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m think it’s going to be more than a fringe, maybe not an 
>> avalanche, but it would be interesting to track…
>>
>>
>>
>> A
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Geordie Guy [mailto:elomis at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, 12 October 2015 4:16 PM
>> To: Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com>; 
>> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data retention
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What's your end goal? If it is to avoid the new datarention going 
>> into effect tomorrow, using a VPN isnt going to change what is being 
>> recorded on you. Dataretention is capturing Email headers on ISP 
>> (australian) email addresses, which a VPN wont change, and the IP 
>> assigned to your session when you connect (either via ADSL, NBN, 3/4G 
>> etc), which again, a VPN wont change.
>>
>>
>>
>> Few people are just using a VPN to avoid retention most are ensuring 
>> they don't use ISP email, and deploy other encryption heavily.  Done 
>> right (and it's not that difficult), the only audit trail you leave 
>> is quite boring - all data is from the same IP, to the same IP, and encrypted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> VPN also introduces a lot of other issues such as latency and GEOIP 
>> breakages that it reduces the end user experience of the internet, so 
>> for most people, pumping all their data through an international VPN 
>> is going to make using the internet unjoyful.
>>
>>
>>
>> How are GEOIP breakages a bad thing? Most people using VPNs before 
>> data retention were doing it explicitly to break IP geolocation.  
>> Latency is similarly not a drama, particularly in circumstances where 
>> people are using carriers that pick losers on a TCP port by TCP port 
>> basis and actually get a net experience improvement.
>>
>>
>>
>> The VPN from my phone transparently routes all my traffic via New Zealand.
>> I don't notice any difference.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Then there is the whole issue of complication, what % of australian 
>> users have the technical ability to set up a VPN?
>>
>>
>>
>> The one I use on my phone processed a payment, took me to the App 
>> Store to download their client, I picked a country from a list of 
>> flags.  The experience was infinitely easier most other tasks I've performed this week.
>> This is progressing in the same vein as everything else - there's 
>> money to be made if you present a compelling use case (would you like 
>> Netflix to think you're American?) and price it correctly (well 
>> Netflix will think you're American if you give me $3.95 a month and click here).
>>
>>
>>
>> I would put that in the single digit percentage, and then what % of 
>> thoes will actually set up a VPN? Again I would guess maybe 10% if you're lucky?
>> So worst case maybe a 0.5% increase in international traffic? That's 
>> not even factoring in how much was international traffic to begin 
>> with which wouldnt increase international usage anyway, just change how its coming in.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The idea that this is hampered by difficulty and poor experience is wrong.
>> It hasn't always been wrong, setting up a VPN was a new and hard 
>> thing for people not all that long ago, but the Internet has done 
>> what the Internet does and people have made it easy to set up with easy payment options.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --Damian
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:14 AM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker 
>> <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I see a lot of privacy advocacy groups recommending using VPN out of 
>> australia. I wonder where can we see easily the change to from local 
>> traffic to international traffic.
>>
>> So I have friends who are thinking of just setting up a vpn to take 
>> all their traffic overseas including access to local sites, like smh 
>> commbank etc etc.
>>
>> My presumption we double up on Intl traffic outbound and then inbound !
>>
>> A
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