[AusNOG] Data retention

Tue Oct 13 12:11:31 EST 2015

On 13 October 2015 at 11:59, Damien Gardner Jnr <rendrag at rendrag.net> wrote:
> Isn't that just Eric's normal email address?
>

How can you tell from the email address? As far as I knew, Mr Pink is
a character from the movie Reservoir Dogs.

> He's been posting with that address since he left Datacom? :)
>

He's clearly intending to hiding his identity. He could have easily
associated his proper name with an email address that doesn't disclose
identity, as you have done.

> On 13 October 2015 at 11:55, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 October 2015 at 10:00, Mister Pink <misterpink at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 'privacy advocate' is a lofty term for people who just want to torrent
>> > without wanting Dallas Buyers Club letters.
>> >
>>
>> This coming from somebody who has decided to hide their identity by
>> using a fake email address ....
>>
>>
>>
>> > I'm not judging those people, but using a VPN in reaction to the data
>> > retention laws for the most part belies the problem they are trying to
>> > solve, and calling that 'Privacy' pollutes the term for people with more
>> > legitimate causes.
>> >
>> > In effect (unless you roll your own) it means you trust a cheap vpn
>> > provider
>> > in a random country more than your own Gov't?  and if your VPN provider
>> > of
>> > choice isn't already selling your data to data brokers, they probably
>> > will
>> > be soon.
>> >
>> > If you absolutely want privacy on the internet, then you need anonymity,
>> > and
>> > for that I would recommend TOR rather than a vpn, or if you are really
>> > paranoid, TOR over a VPN from Mcdonalds Wifi with a Linux ISO on a
>> > thumbdrive from a disposable laptop, but then you're not downloading
>> > pirate
>> > movies.
>> >
>> > Lets agree on this list to call a spade a spade, and not concede moral
>> > high
>> > ground to people who may not deserve it...
>> >
>> >
>> > On 13 October 2015 at 09:22, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
>> > <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Most of my friends, mainly IT literate are thinking vpn. Not a good
>> >> sampling for the general public.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But you have pollie’s pushing VPN’s and legal (!)  avoidance
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://scott-ludlam.greensmps.org.au/campaigns/stopdataretention#protect
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> and I believe its quiet easy to setup routers now a days with VPN’s
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The above link even suggests VPN’s for phone. Hadn’t thought of that
>> >> one!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I’m think it’s going to be more than a fringe, maybe not an avalanche,
>> >> but
>> >> it would be interesting to track…
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Geordie Guy [mailto:elomis at gmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Monday, 12 October 2015 4:16 PM
>> >> To: Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com>;
>> >> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data retention
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What's your end goal? If it is to avoid the new datarention going into
>> >> effect tomorrow, using a VPN isnt going to change what is being
>> >> recorded on
>> >> you. Dataretention is capturing Email headers on ISP (australian) email
>> >> addresses, which a VPN wont change, and the IP assigned to your session
>> >> when
>> >> you connect (either via ADSL, NBN, 3/4G etc), which again, a VPN wont
>> >> change.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Few people are just using a VPN to avoid retention most are ensuring
>> >> they
>> >> don't use ISP email, and deploy other encryption heavily.  Done right
>> >> (and
>> >> it's not that difficult), the only audit trail you leave is quite
>> >> boring -
>> >> all data is from the same IP, to the same IP, and encrypted.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> VPN also introduces a lot of other issues such as latency and GEOIP
>> >> breakages that it reduces the end user experience of the internet, so
>> >> for
>> >> most people, pumping all their data through an international VPN is
>> >> going to
>> >> make using the internet unjoyful.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> How are GEOIP breakages a bad thing? Most people using VPNs before data
>> >> retention were doing it explicitly to break IP geolocation.  Latency is
>> >> similarly not a drama, particularly in circumstances where people are
>> >> using
>> >> carriers that pick losers on a TCP port by TCP port basis and actually
>> >> get a
>> >> net experience improvement.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The VPN from my phone transparently routes all my traffic via New
>> >> Zealand.
>> >> I don't notice any difference.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Then there is the whole issue of complication, what % of australian
>> >> users
>> >> have the technical ability to set up a VPN?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The one I use on my phone processed a payment, took me to the App Store
>> >> to
>> >> download their client, I picked a country from a list of flags.  The
>> >> experience was infinitely easier most other tasks I've performed this
>> >> week.
>> >> This is progressing in the same vein as everything else - there's money
>> >> to
>> >> be made if you present a compelling use case (would you like Netflix to
>> >> think you're American?) and price it correctly (well Netflix will think
>> >> you're American if you give me $3.95 a month and click here).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I would put that in the single digit percentage, and then what % of
>> >> thoes
>> >> will actually set up a VPN? Again I would guess maybe 10% if you're
>> >> lucky?
>> >> So worst case maybe a 0.5% increase in international traffic? That's
>> >> not
>> >> even factoring in how much was international traffic to begin with
>> >> which
>> >> wouldnt increase international usage anyway, just change how its coming
>> >> in.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The idea that this is hampered by difficulty and poor experience is
>> >> wrong.
>> >> It hasn't always been wrong, setting up a VPN was a new and hard thing
>> >> for
>> >> people not all that long ago, but the Internet has done what the
>> >> Internet
>> >> does and people have made it easy to set up with easy payment options.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --Damian
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:14 AM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
>> >> <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi
>> >>
>> >> I see a lot of privacy advocacy groups recommending using VPN out of
>> >> australia. I wonder where can we see easily the change to from local
>> >> traffic
>> >> to international traffic.
>> >>
>> >> So I have friends who are thinking of just setting up a vpn to take all
>> >> their traffic overseas including access to local sites, like smh
>> >> commbank
>> >> etc etc.
>> >>
>> >> My presumption we double up on Intl traffic outbound and then inbound !
>> >>
>> >> A
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Damien Gardner Jnr
> VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
> rendrag at rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
> --
> We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
>  We ran to the sounds of thunder.
> We danced among the lightning bolts,
>  and tore the world asunder