[AusNOG] Data retention

Tue Oct 13 11:59:44 EST 2015

Isn't that just Eric's normal email address?

He's been posting with that address since he left Datacom? :)

On 13 October 2015 at 11:55, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 13 October 2015 at 10:00, Mister Pink <misterpink at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 'privacy advocate' is a lofty term for people who just want to torrent
> > without wanting Dallas Buyers Club letters.
> >
>
> This coming from somebody who has decided to hide their identity by
> using a fake email address ....
>
>
>
> > I'm not judging those people, but using a VPN in reaction to the data
> > retention laws for the most part belies the problem they are trying to
> > solve, and calling that 'Privacy' pollutes the term for people with more
> > legitimate causes.
> >
> > In effect (unless you roll your own) it means you trust a cheap vpn
> provider
> > in a random country more than your own Gov't?  and if your VPN provider
> of
> > choice isn't already selling your data to data brokers, they probably
> will
> > be soon.
> >
> > If you absolutely want privacy on the internet, then you need anonymity,
> and
> > for that I would recommend TOR rather than a vpn, or if you are really
> > paranoid, TOR over a VPN from Mcdonalds Wifi with a Linux ISO on a
> > thumbdrive from a disposable laptop, but then you're not downloading
> pirate
> > movies.
> >
> > Lets agree on this list to call a spade a spade, and not concede moral
> high
> > ground to people who may not deserve it...
> >
> >
> > On 13 October 2015 at 09:22, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
> > <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Most of my friends, mainly IT literate are thinking vpn. Not a good
> >> sampling for the general public.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> But you have pollie’s pushing VPN’s and legal (!)  avoidance
> >>
> >>
> http://scott-ludlam.greensmps.org.au/campaigns/stopdataretention#protect
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> and I believe its quiet easy to setup routers now a days with VPN’s
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The above link even suggests VPN’s for phone. Hadn’t thought of that
> one!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I’m think it’s going to be more than a fringe, maybe not an avalanche,
> but
> >> it would be interesting to track…
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Geordie Guy [mailto:elomis at gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, 12 October 2015 4:16 PM
> >> To: Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com>;
> >> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data retention
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Damian Guppy <the.damo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> What's your end goal? If it is to avoid the new datarention going into
> >> effect tomorrow, using a VPN isnt going to change what is being
> recorded on
> >> you. Dataretention is capturing Email headers on ISP (australian) email
> >> addresses, which a VPN wont change, and the IP assigned to your session
> when
> >> you connect (either via ADSL, NBN, 3/4G etc), which again, a VPN wont
> >> change.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Few people are just using a VPN to avoid retention most are ensuring
> they
> >> don't use ISP email, and deploy other encryption heavily.  Done right
> (and
> >> it's not that difficult), the only audit trail you leave is quite
> boring -
> >> all data is from the same IP, to the same IP, and encrypted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> VPN also introduces a lot of other issues such as latency and GEOIP
> >> breakages that it reduces the end user experience of the internet, so
> for
> >> most people, pumping all their data through an international VPN is
> going to
> >> make using the internet unjoyful.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> How are GEOIP breakages a bad thing? Most people using VPNs before data
> >> retention were doing it explicitly to break IP geolocation.  Latency is
> >> similarly not a drama, particularly in circumstances where people are
> using
> >> carriers that pick losers on a TCP port by TCP port basis and actually
> get a
> >> net experience improvement.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The VPN from my phone transparently routes all my traffic via New
> Zealand.
> >> I don't notice any difference.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Then there is the whole issue of complication, what % of australian
> users
> >> have the technical ability to set up a VPN?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The one I use on my phone processed a payment, took me to the App Store
> to
> >> download their client, I picked a country from a list of flags.  The
> >> experience was infinitely easier most other tasks I've performed this
> week.
> >> This is progressing in the same vein as everything else - there's money
> to
> >> be made if you present a compelling use case (would you like Netflix to
> >> think you're American?) and price it correctly (well Netflix will think
> >> you're American if you give me $3.95 a month and click here).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I would put that in the single digit percentage, and then what % of
> thoes
> >> will actually set up a VPN? Again I would guess maybe 10% if you're
> lucky?
> >> So worst case maybe a 0.5% increase in international traffic? That's not
> >> even factoring in how much was international traffic to begin with which
> >> wouldnt increase international usage anyway, just change how its coming
> in.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The idea that this is hampered by difficulty and poor experience is
> wrong.
> >> It hasn't always been wrong, setting up a VPN was a new and hard thing
> for
> >> people not all that long ago, but the Internet has done what the
> Internet
> >> does and people have made it easy to set up with easy payment options.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --Damian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:14 AM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
> >> <Alex.Samad at yieldbroker.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I see a lot of privacy advocacy groups recommending using VPN out of
> >> australia. I wonder where can we see easily the change to from local
> traffic
> >> to international traffic.
> >>
> >> So I have friends who are thinking of just setting up a vpn to take all
> >> their traffic overseas including access to local sites, like smh
> commbank
> >> etc etc.
> >>
> >> My presumption we double up on Intl traffic outbound and then inbound !
> >>
> >> A
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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-- 

Damien Gardner Jnr
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
rendrag at rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
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 We ran to the sounds of thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
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