[AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

Thu Mar 26 13:53:06 EST 2015

Here's a list of IPv6 Only web sites.

http://ipv6.cybernode.com/list-of-ipv6-only-sites

It's only reachable via IPv6 though 8^)

I was told there are Indian government web sites and gaming servers that are
only reachable via v6 but I can't verify that. Also quite a few dark sites I
imagine.

Most everything is dual stacked.

Mike Biber

IPv6now

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Beeson,
Ayden
Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2015 9:58 AM
To: 'kris at cloudcentral.com.au'; 'ausnog at lists.ausnog.net'
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

(Disclaimer: Apologies, I'm going to be "that guy" and argue against that
line. Don't take this email as a flame, it's more about correcting a
misconception that seems to be quite prevalent and I understand there are a
lot of factors that go into deploying / not deploying IPv6 now that I will
not cover.)

That statement is part of the problem IMHO and I've seen it multiple times
on this list and elsewhere.

IPv6 won't go anywhere until the majority get it turned on. It has no direct
technical relation to IPv4 other than being the replacement for it.  Blaming
a lack of IPv6 deployment progress on "IPv4 not being broken yet" is
self-defeating, it's the same as saying "my water pipes still work even
though they have a few big cracks leaking, why should the council replace
them until the water completely stops flowing?" or "nobody else bothers to
put rubbish in a bin, so I won't either, plus I invented this new thing to
add onto my shoes to make me higher to keep out of all the litter on the
ground, everybody else needs to buy some now too"

Unfortunately CGNAT is now a requirement for a lot of companies, due in
large part to a lack of progress on IPv6, but it doesn't go both ways. But
as has been said before, most users don't understand or care how their
internet connection works, just that it does, so the onus is on the ISP's
etc. to push these things along for the benefit of everybody. Again as has
been said, there is very little commercial incentive to do this, but it's
really going to be minimal capex to implement with very little additional
opex spending so it shouldn't be as big a cost issue as it may seem, at
least for basic connectivity for servers etc.

Obviously we can't argue "don't do CGNAT" now, we are well past that, but I
would say that anybody looking at or doing CGNAT should at least have an
IPv6 deployment plan they are actively progressing, even if it's slowly.

The problem with IPv4 is that we can continue to do CGNAT theoretically
indefinitely, though the logging required will continue to increase and the
port ranges that are allowed for per user will continue to shrink until it
becomes practically untenable. The issue is in the meantime we are stifling
innovation and strangling available uses for the internet. In the next few
years we will see a continued explosion of devices that will need IPv6 to be
able to truly be used to their full potential, but a lot of those will just
continue to not work or be underutilised until the network under them has
the capacity to handle them gracefully.

On the topic of IPv6 only hosts, I have heard there are ISP's in China and
Europe that are doing this but I have nothing concrete, anybody know if
that's fact or not / have a link? I suspect given I can't find any info at
all it's not real, but I'd be interested to know.

TL;DR - IPv6 only works when everybody does IPv6, do CGNAT if you have to,
but make it clear to your management (or to yourself) that's it's not a long
term strategy and make sure you have some sort of IPv6 plan being worked on
for everybody's sake.

Thanks,

Ayden Beeson 

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
Kristoffer Sheather @ CloudCentral
Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2015 8:50 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

IPv6 won't go anywhere until IPv4 doesn't work anymore.  That day is not
today despite the numerous arguments and flames I expect to receive
subsequent to this message.

Regards,
Kristoffer Sheather

  _____  

From: "Scott Weeks" <surfer at mauigateway.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:42 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise 

> Reduce the amount of data to zero - put this energy into
> deploying IPv6 instead of CG-NAT. You know you should.
> You know you can.

:: Oh boy, I am so sick of people harping on like this. I
:: challenge you to run one single internet customer IPv6
:: only (no translations) and see how long it lasts. Just

Dual stack is not doable? I thought that's what he meant
by deploy IPv6. Maybe I need more beer? Again? ;-)

scott

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