[AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

Thu Mar 26 09:57:39 EST 2015

(Disclaimer: Apologies, I'm going to be "that guy" and argue against that line. Don't take this email as a flame, it's more about correcting a misconception that seems to be quite prevalent and I understand there are a lot of factors that go into deploying / not deploying IPv6 now that I will not cover.)

That statement is part of the problem IMHO and I've seen it multiple times on this list and elsewhere.

IPv6 won't go anywhere until the majority get it turned on. It has no direct technical relation to IPv4 other than being the replacement for it.  Blaming a lack of IPv6 deployment progress on "IPv4 not being broken yet" is self-defeating, it's the same as saying "my water pipes still work even though they have a few big cracks leaking, why should the council replace them until the water completely stops flowing?" or "nobody else bothers to put rubbish in a bin, so I won't either, plus I invented this new thing to add onto my shoes to make me higher to keep out of all the litter on the ground, everybody else needs to buy some now too"

Unfortunately CGNAT is now a requirement for a lot of companies, due in large part to a lack of progress on IPv6, but it doesn't go both ways. But as has been said before, most users don't understand or care how their internet connection works, just that it does, so the onus is on the ISP's etc. to push these things along for the benefit of everybody. Again as has been said, there is very little commercial incentive to do this, but it's really going to be minimal capex to implement with very little additional opex spending so it shouldn't be as big a cost issue as it may seem, at least for basic connectivity for servers etc.

Obviously we can't argue "don't do CGNAT" now, we are well past that, but I would say that anybody looking at or doing CGNAT should at least have an IPv6 deployment plan they are actively progressing, even if it's slowly.

The problem with IPv4 is that we can continue to do CGNAT theoretically indefinitely, though the logging required will continue to increase and the port ranges that are allowed for per user will continue to shrink until it becomes practically untenable. The issue is in the meantime we are stifling innovation and strangling available uses for the internet. In the next few years we will see a continued explosion of devices that will need IPv6 to be able to truly be used to their full potential, but a lot of those will just continue to not work or be underutilised until the network under them has the capacity to handle them gracefully.

On the topic of IPv6 only hosts, I have heard there are ISP's in China and Europe that are doing this but I have nothing concrete, anybody know if that's fact or not / have a link? I suspect given I can't find any info at all it's not real, but I'd be interested to know...

TL;DR - IPv6 only works when everybody does IPv6, do CGNAT if you have to, but make it clear to your management (or to yourself) that's it's not a long term strategy and make sure you have some sort of IPv6 plan being worked on for everybody's sake.

Thanks,
Ayden Beeson

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Kristoffer Sheather @ CloudCentral
Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2015 8:50 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

IPv6 won't go anywhere until IPv4 doesn't work anymore.  That day is not today despite the numerous arguments and flames I expect to receive subsequent to this message.

Regards,
Kristoffer Sheather

________________________________
From: "Scott Weeks" <surfer at mauigateway.com<mailto:surfer at mauigateway.com>>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:42 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

> Reduce the amount of data to zero - put this energy into
> deploying IPv6 instead of CG-NAT. You know you should.
> You know you can.

:: Oh boy, I am so sick of people harping on like this. I
:: challenge you to run one single internet customer IPv6
:: only (no translations) and see how long it lasts. Just

Dual stack is not doable? I thought that's what he meant
by deploy IPv6. Maybe I need more beer? Again? ;-)

scott

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