[AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs letter to Ministers

[Beeson, Ayden]

> On 19 Mar 2015, at 1:57 pm, Ross Wheeler <ausnog at rossw.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I doubt we have seen everything they have done, but if they have truly
>> done nothing now then it can't get worse by you being members, you can't
>> get worse than 0.
>
> I disagree.
>
> At the moment, the (numerical majority) of ISPs are not members. CA can
> beat its chest and say it's "the industry representative body" but it's a
> demonstrable fact that it's not (depending on your metric of course)

It's demonstrable here yes, but outside this group it's not seen that way, so you may as well be there arguing your point, seeing as you all get bundled up with them either way.

>
> If all the small members were to join (and were still ignored), then even
> that remaining shread disappears, if CA can point at its memberlist and
> show (plucks a figure out of thin air) 800 ISPs as members...

I'd say if you flat out said you disagree, they could not claim you agree, imagine if half of you disagree, suddenly CA can only claim half their members agree with this.

The member list includes (at a rough glance) 50-100 members. If you all sign up you get a voice, while you may not be the biggest voices by customers, you'd certainly be a large portion of the total member list.

>
>> Failing that, why don't you all form a coalition of small providers and
>> act as one medium / large member?
>
> Because as I said earlier, small ISPs don't actually WANT to be members of
> just about anything. While I was on the TIO council, I attempted to
> contact all the ISP members the TIO knew of, to gauge the wider ISP views
> on a range of topics. There were a handful of ISPs who were happy to
> communicate in a meaningful way. I was quite disappointed by the number of
> hate-mail responses I got (which may have been because it was even
> peripherally associated with the TIO), and quite disheartened by the far
> greater number of completely un-responsive addresses.
>
Agreed, but unfortunately we (read, all isps and users) have to do something at this point.

>> Only thing I know for sure is that complaining here isn't stopping the
>> government, all the very valid discussions here need to get out of this
>> group to have any serious impact.
>
> Yup. but by who? CA doesn't seem interested in doing it, a few here have
> taken it to their local members (who seem about as interested as CA), and
> I don't see anyone else putting their hand up.

If you are all telling CA to do it, they might actually start doing something.
>
>> As evidenced by that house of reps image earlier, they don't care, so
>> it's time to start hammering senators as a unified group, as it's not
>> going to stop otherwise and once it's in it'll be really hard to change
>> anything.
>
> Do they really "not care"? Or have they been TOLD by their party that the
> result is this, don't bother with the debate, just vote this way.?

100% agree, that's almost certainly what happened, hence my comment that the Senate is our last chance and my other email saying to get your users involved. This is a quantity fight and to stand a chance you need to get a much larger voice than we are seeing now.
>
Charles Sturt University

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