[AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs letter to Ministers

[Ross Wheeler]

> I doubt we have seen everything they have done, but if they have truly 
> done nothing now then it can't get worse by you being members, you can't 
> get worse than 0.

I disagree.

At the moment, the (numerical majority) of ISPs are not members. CA can 
beat its chest and say it's "the industry representative body" but it's a 
demonstrable fact that it's not (depending on your metric of course).

If all the small members were to join (and were still ignored), then even 
that remaining shread disappears, if CA can point at its memberlist and 
show (plucks a figure out of thin air) 800 ISPs as members...


> Failing that, why don't you all form a coalition of small providers and 
> act as one medium / large member?

Because as I said earlier, small ISPs don't actually WANT to be members of 
just about anything. While I was on the TIO council, I attempted to 
contact all the ISP members the TIO knew of, to gauge the wider ISP views 
on a range of topics. There were a handful of ISPs who were happy to 
communicate in a meaningful way. I was quite disappointed by the number of 
hate-mail responses I got (which may have been because it was even 
peripherally associated with the TIO), and quite disheartened by the far 
greater number of completely un-responsive addresses.


> Only thing I know for sure is that complaining here isn't stopping the 
> government, all the very valid discussions here need to get out of this 
> group to have any serious impact.

Yup. but by who? CA doesn't seem interested in doing it, a few here have 
taken it to their local members (who seem about as interested as CA), and 
I don't see anyone else putting their hand up.


> As evidenced by that house of reps image earlier, they don't care, so 
> it's time to start hammering senators as a unified group, as it's not 
> going to stop otherwise and once it's in it'll be really hard to change 
> anything.

Do they really "not care"? Or have they been TOLD by their party that the 
result is this, don't bother with the debate, just vote this way.?