[AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention

Mon Mar 2 09:00:52 EST 2015

I don't agree with the legislation, however as we are now stuck with it it
does not seem over onerous. At a glance it looks like encrypted mail logs
(no big deal), telephone call data that we already record.... have I missed
something?

Cheers
Mark McKibbin
DCSI

On 2 March 2015 at 08:47, Nathan Brookfield <
Nathan.Brookfield at simtronic.com.au> wrote:

>  I know it covers me without any hesitation unfortunately so I’ve come to
> grips with the fact I just need to suck it up.  Storage is cheap, mirror
> ports are easy to implement and we’re small enough at the moment that it’s
> not going to cause me any major pain and we’ll likely never be asked for
> the data…
>
>
>
> *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rendrag at rendrag.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, 2 March 2015 8:43 AM
>
> *To:* Nathan Brookfield
> *Cc:* Paul Wilkins; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention
>
>
>
> Sorry, but I just don't agree.  The way I read it as it currently stands,
> I can basically ignore the legislation until someone definitively says I
> have to (i.e. the 'The minister may issue a determination specifically
> declaring a company to be a hosting provider').
>
>
>
> It sounds like you WANT to have to collect metadata Nath ;)  Why are you
> arguing so hard to be covered by the new legislation??
>
>
>
> On 2 March 2015 at 08:38, Nathan Brookfield <
> Nathan.Brookfield at simtronic.com.au> wrote:
>
> In the best case scenario they are leasing the ‘Hardware’ but that does
> not mean they are leasing the space, in the majority of cases they are
> going to be paying for a ‘service’ which you are providing on your own
> hardware (hosting/vps) and you ‘the hosting provider’ are leasing the
> space, not the end client.
>
>
>
> I think on this argument you would need a REALLY good lawyer…..
>
>
>
> Very different argument to the Megaport/PIPE issue.
>
>
>
> *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rendrag at rendrag.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, 2 March 2015 8:33 AM
> *To:* Nathan Brookfield
> *Cc:* Paul Wilkins; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention
>
>
>
> But the customer is located within the facility? They're leasing
> hardware/space/etc from you, so they are your tenant - therefore they are
> located in the facility?
>
>
>
> On 2 March 2015 at 08:26, Nathan Brookfield <
> Nathan.Brookfield at simtronic.com.au> wrote:
>
> But you are providing said (hosting/colo/dedi/vds) services in multiple
> data centres and the actual customer is not located within that facility, I
> think that one would be hard pressed to stand behind.
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Damien
> Gardner Jnr
> *Sent:* Monday, 2 March 2015 6:32 AM
> *To:* Paul Wilkins
> *Cc:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention
>
>
>
> If you're going to quote the Carriage Service definition from the
> Telecommunications Act, you also need to note Section 89, the 'same
> premises' exclusion. This excludes services delivered inside the same
> building, which reads to me that provided you're only supplying internet
> services inside of Datacenters (which most hosting/colo/dedi/vds companies
> do), you're not providing carriage services, and thus aren't affected by
> this bill?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2 March 2015 at 02:51, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The fundamental qualifier is whether you provide a 'carriage service', as
> defined by the Telecommunications Act, 1997. (The Broadcasting Services Act
> relies on the definition in the Telco Act).
>
> *carriage service* means a service for carrying communications by means
> of guided and/or unguided electromagnetic energy.
>
>
>
> If you provide a service (or resell a service) for the termination of
> cables or fiber, you're clearly within the scope of the bill.
>
> If you don't touch the physical or data link layers, the bill may or may
> not apply, subject to interpretation and legal argument. It's not clear if
> a communication at the IP layer is to the opposite IP (which arguably
> requires transmission by electromagnetic energy). Then again, IP doesn't
> deal with electromagnetic radiation, so perhaps not, but I wouldn't think
> this a strong argument.
>
> Alternatively, if the communication is viewed as from the IP to the MAC,
> then the communication is local and there is no transmission via
> electromagnetic energy (except from what is local to the NIC chipset).
> Assuming this interpretation, the IP<>IP conversation would be 'content' of
> the MAC<>IP communication, and still remains outside the bill.
>
> As I've said, the lawyers will have a lot of fun with this. I'm not a
> lawyer and don't represent myself as a legal expert. If you need informed
> opinion, consult a legal professional, or ask the advice of the Dep't of
> Communications, who administer both the Telco Act, and the Broadcasting
> Services Act.
>
>
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Damien Gardner Jnr
> VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
> rendrag at rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
> --
> We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
>  We ran to the sounds of thunder.
> We danced among the lightning bolts,
>  and tore the world asunder
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Damien Gardner Jnr
> VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
> rendrag at rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
> --
> We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
>  We ran to the sounds of thunder.
> We danced among the lightning bolts,
>  and tore the world asunder
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Damien Gardner Jnr
> VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
> rendrag at rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
> --
> We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
>  We ran to the sounds of thunder.
> We danced among the lightning bolts,
>  and tore the world asunder
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>

-- 

[image: DCSI Logo]

*Mark McKibbin*
Director

DCS Internet Pty Ltd | 64 Queen St, Warragul VIC 3820
W: www.dcsi.net.au | P: 1300 665 575 | F: 1300 556 595
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