<div dir="ltr">I don't agree with the legislation, however as we are now stuck with it it does not seem over onerous. At a glance it looks like encrypted mail logs (no big deal), telephone call data that we already record.... have I missed something?<div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div>Mark McKibbin</div><div>DCSI</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 March 2015 at 08:47, Nathan Brookfield <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au" target="_blank">Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I know it covers me without any hesitation unfortunately so I’ve come to grips with the fact I just need to suck it up. Storage is cheap, mirror ports are
easy to implement and we’re small enough at the moment that it’s not going to cause me any major pain and we’ll likely never be asked for the data… <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 2 March 2015 8:43 AM</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Nathan Brookfield<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Paul Wilkins; <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry, but I just don't agree. The way I read it as it currently stands, I can basically ignore the legislation until someone definitively says I have to (i.e. the 'The minister may issue a determination specifically declaring a company
to be a hosting provider').<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It sounds like you WANT to have to collect metadata Nath ;) Why are you arguing so hard to be covered by the new legislation??<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2 March 2015 at 08:38, Nathan Brookfield <<a href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au" target="_blank">Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In the best case scenario they are leasing the ‘Hardware’ but that does not mean they are leasing
the space, in the majority of cases they are going to be paying for a ‘service’ which you are providing on your own hardware (hosting/vps) and you ‘the hosting provider’ are leasing the space, not the end client.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I think on this argument you would need a REALLY good lawyer…..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Very different argument to the Megaport/PIPE issue.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Damien
Gardner Jnr [mailto:<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 2 March 2015 8:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nathan Brookfield<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Paul Wilkins; <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">
ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">But the customer is located within the facility? They're leasing hardware/space/etc from you, so they are your tenant - therefore they are located in the facility?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2 March 2015 at 08:26, Nathan Brookfield <<a href="mailto:Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au" target="_blank">Nathan.Brookfield@simtronic.com.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But you are providing said (hosting/colo/dedi/vds) services in multiple data centres and the actual
customer is not located within that facility, I think that one would be hard pressed to stand behind.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> AusNOG
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Damien Gardner Jnr<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 2 March 2015 6:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Wilkins<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Welcome to Metadata Retention</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If you're going to quote the Carriage Service definition from the Telecommunications Act, you also need to note Section 89, the 'same premises' exclusion. This excludes services
delivered inside the same building, which reads to me that provided you're only supplying internet services inside of Datacenters (which most hosting/colo/dedi/vds companies do), you're not providing carriage services, and thus aren't affected by this bill?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2 March 2015 at 02:51, Paul Wilkins <<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The fundamental qualifier is whether you provide a 'carriage service', as defined by the Telecommunications Act, 1997. (The Broadcasting Services Act relies on the definition in the Telco
Act).<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="margin-left:30.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i>carriage service</i></b> means a service for carrying communications by means of guided and/or unguided electromagnetic energy.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">If you provide a service (or resell a service) for the termination of cables or fiber, you're clearly within the scope of the bill.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">If you don't touch the physical or data link layers, the bill may or may not apply, subject to interpretation and legal argument. It's not clear if a communication at the IP layer is
to the opposite IP (which arguably requires transmission by electromagnetic energy). Then again, IP doesn't deal with electromagnetic radiation, so perhaps not, but I wouldn't think this a strong argument.<br>
<br>
Alternatively, if the communication is viewed as from the IP to the MAC, then the communication is local and there is no transmission via electromagnetic energy (except from what is local to the NIC chipset). Assuming this interpretation, the IP<>IP conversation
would be 'content' of the MAC<>IP communication, and still remains outside the bill.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As I've said, the lawyers will have a lot of fun with this. I'm not a lawyer and don't represent myself as a legal expert. If you need informed opinion, consult a legal professional,
or ask the advice of the Dep't of Communications, who administer both the Telco Act, and the Broadcasting Services Act.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">Paul Wilkins</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p>Damien Gardner Jnr<br>
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust<br>
<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a> - <a href="http://www.rendrag.net/" target="_blank">http://www.rendrag.net/</a><u><br>
</u>--<br>
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,<br>
We ran to the sounds of thunder.<br>
We danced among the lightning bolts,<br>
and tore the world asunder<u></u><u></u></p>
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</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p>Damien Gardner Jnr<br>
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust<br>
<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a> - <a href="http://www.rendrag.net/" target="_blank">http://www.rendrag.net/</a><u><br>
</u>--<br>
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,<br>
We ran to the sounds of thunder.<br>
We danced among the lightning bolts,<br>
and tore the world asunder<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p>Damien Gardner Jnr<br>
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust<br>
<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a> - <a href="http://www.rendrag.net/" target="_blank">http://www.rendrag.net/</a><u><br>
</u>--<br>
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,<br>
We ran to the sounds of thunder.<br>
We danced among the lightning bolts,<br>
and tore the world asunder<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt"><p><img src="https://doc-0o-00-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/4ri5l86lgtfebuusoeaqu2kfa9ot17g5/9s5ouioih9253t2urli4k2g3f7ilm7ro/1424570400000/03275658648426460597/17057130937134396212/0B2xP3T1ZB42tcjdjYkVSR0prU1E?e=view" alt="DCSI Logo" width="150" height="66"></p></td><td style="padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt" valign="top"><p><strong><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica','sans-serif';color:black">Mark McKibbin</span></strong><span style="font-family:'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><br><span style="color:#666666">Director</span></span></p><div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid #ff8000 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:3.75pt;margin-left:0cm;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica','sans-serif';color:black"> </span></p></div><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Helvetica','sans-serif';color:#999999">DCS Internet Pty Ltd | 64 Queen St, Warragul VIC 3820<br>W: <a href="http://www.dcsi.net.au" target="_blank">www.dcsi.net.au</a> | P: 1300 665 575 | F: 1300 556 595 </span></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
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