[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

[Mark ZZZ Smith]

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> From: Jacob Gardiner <jacob at jacobgardiner.com>
>To: Sam Silvester <sam.silvester at gmail.com>; Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>; "AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> 
>Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:03 AM
>Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?
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>>Yes, but not to download content for which I don't have the copyright owner's permission. I hold copyright on work (that I've chosen to give away for free), if I don't respect others' copyright, how can I expect them to respect mine?
>Good for you, I too hold copywrite, but that’s not the point.
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Well then I don't know what your point in asking the question was? By asking if I used bittorrent, I thought you were implying "(to download copyright material I don't have the rights holders permission to)". Why did you ask that question if you weren't asking that?

>>These sorts of assertions are typical 'Whirlpool' pejorative assertions, rather than ones that reflect reality.
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>>You assert that ADSL connections are 'crappy'. If that were the case, then how come it is being used to deliver over 4 Million Internet services in Australia, more than 5 times the next most popular wired technology? (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/8153.0Chapter3December%202013) (Are you using 'crappy' ADSL? If so, why?)
>They are crappy,

'crappy' to me means unreliable. ADSL in most cases is very reliable, and when it isn't, it has commonly been fixed. The main reason that it isn't as reliable as it could be is because current _regulations_ that Telstra have to comply with say that the local loop only has to support reliable voice services. If regulations were changed such that the local loop had to support reliable ADSL services with a certain minimum signal-to-noise ratio, then ADSL as a whole would become even more reliable than it is today 

> how can you say that Australian broadband is not sub-par?

Because millions of people are happy with it, as is to doing the job they want for the money they're willing to pay. Paying for something and continuing to pay for it is the final arbiter or "vote for success" of the product.

However, as per that ABS link above, people are actually starting to 'vote for failure' of wired technologies, by buying less of them. The 'Type of Access' slider shows that between December 2010 and June 2011 the use of wired broadband technologies started to decline as mobile and fixed wireless Internet services became dominant.

The trouble with your question though is you haven't defined 'sub-par'. To take it literally, how do you measure Australian broadband in terms of the number of hits of a golf ball to reach the hole? 'sub-par' in that case is exceptional.




>Yes I use crappy ADSL, I use it because i have no other option. Would I buy a fibre service if it was available for me? Yes.
>It’s used ‘more than 5 times’ anything else because it’s the best available consumer product in the market. It still buffers, there’s still geo-blocks for much of the content people want to watch. 
>And for me personally I want to watch high definition, not low definition cartoons/a buffering spinning wheel.
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So again, this is the sort of "whirlpool" generalisation that doesn't represent reality. The content on Youtube, ABC iView and SBS On Demand is not 'low definition cartoons', and my first hand experience is no buffering in all but the very occasional case. People wouldn't be using them if the experience was terrible.

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>>You assert that the only way for people to attain their favourite shows is via bittorrent, yet I and others have been watching streaming video over ADSL from the ABC, SBS and Youtube for in the order of more than 5 years, including over a 3Mbps ADSL link in my previous residence.
>And the streams that i watch have their “low” setting at 1600Kbps. They need to be high definition because otherwise I can’t actually see what’s going on, let alone the hockey puck in an NHL match.
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So that implies your ADSL sync speed is 1600Kbps, which is very low. My 3Mbps ADSL link was literally on the edge of the exchange I was attached to, so it is likely to have been close to the common worse case.


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>>You assert that only Netflix is able to provide streaming content that people want to buy, which is why the government must sponsor its entry into the Australian market. Yet I've watched a number of movies recently on Google Play, and my 2.5 year old "Smart TV" has had Quickflix and Sony's VoD service clients available from day one (as did the "Smart" blu-ray player I bought at the same time). If availability of GoT is the measure, then all four seasons of GoT are available via Google Play, so it can be streamed legally rather than illegally downloaded. Right now there are a number of VoD services available to Australians, without Netflix being in the market, so why should they get a free kick from the government over the existing *and* smaller players?
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>>Many people on this list can't afford to be 'armchair network engineers' like those who make Whirlpool-type assertions can, because real money is being spent on real infrastructure and we have or have had real customers, and have real faults to deal with. What works well enough and what delivers what the customers want for a price they will pay is what matters, not religious zealotry about FTTH being the only God worth worshipping. (And If you look at the above ABS link, if there is any Internet access technology worshipping going on, it's the mobile and fixed wireless God being worshipped, delivering Internet connections in numbers nearly equivalent to all others combined.)
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>Armchair engineer? Whirlpool? Right, So engineering doesn’t have much to do with this conversation,
> but fast and reliable access to good networks is related, something which you’re obviously not wanting because you’re happy with your 3Mbps DSL sync. Just because you’re happy sitting around and watching low definition anime on a shitty connection doesn’t mean that the rest of us who may need high quality connectivity are. 

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That's a first. I don't think I've every met anybody who thinks they know my first hand experience better than I do.|

If you're going to rant like that, have your 2 minutes of hate at Whirlpool, not here. 


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>And Netflix with 200,000+ Australian based subscribers already using the service it seems i’m not the only one in this spot.
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>The thing I really really like about something like Netflix coming to town is that it creates a need for a whole range of re-thinking the way that our industry operates, which is something I strongly believe Australia needs if we’re ever going to become a country that does something more than mining exports. 
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>IMO the government needs to facilitate the set up of companies like Netflix, not give them a free ride, and not necessarily Netflix alone. Why? Because it encourages a whole range of improvements that the rest of the industries would get a major boost from.  
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>This kind of boost would probably keep a lot of our local companies on-shore. We’ve lost almost every decent tech startup to London or the US West coast 10 years, because we simply don’t have a market, or the infrastructure to facilitate them. We are 12-18 months behind and there doesn’t appear to be any sign of us closing that gap. 
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>Netflix are very vocal about their issues with ISPs in the US that make the end-user’s experience worse, all in order to line their own pockets. Why wouldn’t a company like that be welcome here to let rip on the Go4 and bad infrastructure decisions? Sure, Netflix don’t need to set up here in AU but if that’s the case then they’re going to be even more dependant on the end-users ISP having reliable connectivity, otherwise their customers simply won’t keep their subscription active. It’s all about customer experience, and just because you’re willing to wait for a buffer to fill on your 3Mbps DSL whilst your new smart fridge downloads a new firmware update doesn’t mean that the regular joe next door would be.   
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