[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

Tue Jul 22 05:49:56 EST 2014

To be clear I obviously support a Tier 1 peering arrangement and those that
have invested significant money in infrastructure/eyeballs should either be
at, or have a chance to sit at the table.  Telstra is king and rightly so.
Biggest IP network, most eyeballs, biggest 3/4G etc..  I don't expect they
should peer at local IX's etc..  I used to in my youth, but they were crazy,
rebellious days  ahhh the noughties :)

But in my position in trying to attract international players to the
Australian market (content in particular) the issue isn't about changing the
economics to get them and their infrastructure to Australia's shores, but
then more revolves around what happens once they get here.

AAPT was working with some content guys and being a little innovative and
starting to get good results.  My sources tell me that is now rapidly coming
to an end.  Alternate paths are being sought, but the economics are heading
the wrong way.

It is one of those "taxes" that you can't quite see what you are missing out
on and when you add that to the soon to be included CVC charge the hurdles
start appearing taller and taller.

Agree it's less of an issue  but it is still an issue in my opinion.

Cheers

[b]

From:  Joshua D'Alton <joshua at railgun.com.au>
Date:  Tuesday, 22 July 2014 12:33 AM
To:  Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au>
Cc:  "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject:  Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

"It's 2014. Why is the Go4 so important to you?"

Because our government has decided to hinder this country for the next 20
years+++. Until the majority of consumers bow to the popular demand, we will
be left with Telstra as forever the last mile and therefore the ones in
control.

Telstra is and will likely be for years to come the majority provider in AU,
even if Optus TPG and iiNet were to align against them. Ironically Telstra
doesn't care about domestic or internatinal transit, they care purely about
the last mile, which they will seem to likely perpetually own

Everyone can see what is happening to USA internet, will we be so blind as
to what happens to ours? Including those who voted liberal??

Not the opinion of my company etc et al, purely personal philosophical
interests!

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au> wrote:
> The Go4 make up a lot of AU user base and if they were forced onto a public
> IX, those who do host content can get easier connectivity to them. With that
> being the case, yes it would effectively kill the domestic transit market,
> which I noted in some way in my original post, but could be a major benefit to
> the industry as a whole, minus a few feeling the pain of the lost market.
> Again, and especially after this conversation, I agree there are more in depth
> issues that need to be considered but my initial comment was based mostly on
> the idea of a network operator only having to worry about purchasing
> international, and maintaining peering.
> 
> On 21 July 2014 22:52:39 GMT+10:00, Mark Newton <newton at atdot.dotat.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> On 21 Jul 2014, at 22:09, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>>  I personally (as the person who brought up government mandates) was
>>> actually suggesting that ISP's (those that deliver internet access to end
>>> users, specifically, vs say content hosters like Netflix) be forced to join
>>> IX's, in an attempt to break up Go4 and make most domestic transit
>>> affordable for everyone.
>> 
>> Okay, I'll bite:
>> 
>> It's 2014. Why is the Go4 so important to you?
>> 
>> It doesn't appear to be relevant to the medium-sized parts of the industry
>> anymore.
>> There was a time when it utterly dominated discussion on aussie-isp, but that
>> was
>> 
>> a very long time ago, and these days it's barely mentioned at all.
>> 
>> I doubt it's meaningful to Telstra anymore: their peering policy would very
>> likely
>> be
>> exactly the same without the ACCC-mandated ruling, except for the fact that
>> they'd
>> probably de-peer AAPT.
>> 
>> And let's not forget Optus:  They don't want to meet you at peering exchanges
>> either.
>> Their choice, without Telstra's monopoly legacy.  Abolishing the Go4 won't
>> change 
>> 
>> their behavior either.
>> 
>> So why does anyone else care about it anymore?  How is it meaningfully
>> different from the
>> situation you'd be in if you were American, and Level(3) and AT&T declined to
>> peer
>> with you because it was more commercially beneficial for them to sell you
>> traffic
>> 
>> instead?
>> 
>> I'm not saying you shouldn't break out the Peering Playbook and see if you
>> can 
>> make it cheaper for Telstra and Optus to peer with you than not peer with
>> you.  Fair
>> game, 'n' all that.
>> 
>> But, invoking the Government to swoop in and make it all better for you?
>> Really?
>> 
>> Suggestion:  Buy transit from non-Go4 suppliers (such as, for
>> example, Vocus). Peer
>> aggressively at the -IX's to maximize the amount of domestic carriage you can
>> do 
>> for zero marginal cost.  Maintain connections to Telstra and Optus, buying
>> domestic
>> transit only, on short term contracts where they know you're playing them off
>> 
>> against each other on price.  In this marketplace, domestic transit is
>> virtually indistinguishable from paid peering anyway, so sign up for that and
>> see
>> how far down you can drive your Telstra spend by moving your traffic away
>> from
>> 
>> Telstra.
>> 
>> (or in your case, Optus)
>> 
>> If you're an eyeball ISP with 80% of your traffic heading internationally,
>> and you
>> pick up half of the remainder with peering, only 10% of your total traffic
>> mix
>> will need to come from a Go4 member.
>> 
>> What do you think would happen to bandwidth prices in this country if more of
>> you
>> lot behaved like that, instead of stitching up long-term high-bandwidth
>> transit
>> contracts with
>> Telstra and Optus, or signing up with VISP suppliers who take away
>> your decision-making control about your bandwidth supplies?
>> 
>>   - mark
>> 
>> 
> -- Sent from my Android device with Pigeon.
> 
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