<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>To be clear I obviously support a Tier 1 peering arrangement and those that have invested significant money in infrastructure/eyeballs should either be at, or have a chance to sit at the table. Telstra is king and rightly so. Biggest IP network, most eyeballs, biggest 3/4G etc.. I don't expect they should peer at local IX's etc.. I used to in my youth, but they were crazy, rebellious days – ahhh the noughties :)</div><div><br></div><div>But in my position in trying to attract international players to the Australian market (content in particular) the issue isn't about changing the economics to get them and their infrastructure to Australia's shores, but then more revolves around what happens once they get here.</div><div><br></div><div>AAPT was working with some content guys and being a little innovative and starting to get good results. My sources tell me that is now rapidly coming to an end. Alternate paths are being sought, but the economics are heading the wrong way.</div><div><br></div><div>It is one of those "taxes" that you can't quite see what you are missing out on and when you add that to the soon to be included CVC charge the hurdles start appearing taller and taller.</div><div><br></div><div>Agree it's less of an issue – but it is still an issue in my opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>[b]</div><div> </div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Joshua D'Alton <<a href="mailto:joshua@railgun.com.au">joshua@railgun.com.au</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday, 22 July 2014 12:33 AM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Joseph Goldman <<a href="mailto:joe@apcs.com.au">joe@apcs.com.au</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?<br></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">"<span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">It's 2014. Why is the Go4 so important to you?"</span><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Because our government has decided to hinder this country for the next 20 years+++. Until the majority of consumers bow to the popular demand, we will be left with Telstra as forever the last mile and therefore the ones in control.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Telstra is and will likely be for years to come the majority provider in AU, even if Optus TPG and iiNet were to align against them. Ironically Telstra doesn't care about domestic or internatinal transit, they care purely about the last mile, which they will seem to likely perpetually own</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Everyone can see what is happening to USA internet, will we be so blind as to what happens to ours? Including those who voted liberal??</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Not the opinion of my company etc et al, purely personal philosophical interests!</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Joseph Goldman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joe@apcs.com.au" target="_blank">joe@apcs.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>The Go4 make up a lot of AU user base and if they were forced onto a public IX, those who do host content can get easier connectivity to them.
With that being the case, yes it would effectively kill the domestic transit market, which I noted in some way in my original post, but could be a major benefit to the industry as a whole, minus a few feeling the pain of the lost market.
Again, and especially after this conversation, I agree there are more in depth issues that need to be considered but my initial comment was based mostly on the idea of a network operator only having to worry about purchasing international, and maintaining peering. <br><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 21 July 2014 22:52:39 GMT+10:00, Mark Newton <<a href="mailto:newton@atdot.dotat.org" target="_blank">newton@atdot.dotat.org</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><pre><br>On 21 Jul 2014, at 22:09, Joseph Goldman <<a href="mailto:joe@apcs.com.au" target="_blank">joe@apcs.com.au</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid #729fcf;padding-left:1ex">
I personally (as the person who brought up government mandates) was actually suggesting that ISP's (those that deliver internet access to end users, specifically, vs say content hosters like Netflix) be forced to join IX's, in an attempt to break up Go4 and make most domestic transit affordable for everyone.<br></blockquote><br>Okay, I'll bite:<br><br>It's 2014. Why is the Go4 so important to you?<br><br>It doesn't appear to be relevant to the medium-sized parts of the industry anymore.<br>There was a time when it utterly dominated discussion on aussie-isp, but that was<br>
a very long time ago, and these days it's barely mentioned at all.<br><br>I doubt it's meaningful to Telstra anymore: their peering policy would very likely<br>be
exactly the same without the ACCC-mandated ruling, except for the fact that they'd<br>probably de-peer AAPT. <br><br>And let's not forget Optus: They don't want to meet you at peering exchanges either.<br>Their choice, without Telstra's monopoly legacy. Abolishing the Go4 won't change <br>
their behavior either.<br><br>So why does anyone else care about it anymore? How is it meaningfully different from the <br>situation you'd be in if you were American, and Level(3) and AT&T declined to peer<br>with you because it was more commercially beneficial for them to sell you traffic<br>
instead?<br><br>I'm not saying you shouldn't break out the Peering Playbook and see if you can <br>make it cheaper for Telstra and Optus to peer with you than not peer with you. Fair<br>game, 'n' all that.<br><br>But, invoking the Government to swoop in and make it all better for you? Really?<br><br>Suggestion: Buy transit from non-Go4 suppliers (such as, for
example, Vocus). Peer<br>aggressively at the -IX's to maximize the amount of domestic carriage you can do <br>for zero marginal cost. Maintain connections to Telstra and Optus, buying domestic<br>transit only, on short term contracts where they know you're playing them off<br>
against each other on price. In this marketplace, domestic transit is<br>virtually indistinguishable from paid peering anyway, so sign up for that and see<br>how far down you can drive your Telstra spend by moving your traffic away from<br>
Telstra.<br><br>(or in your case, Optus)<br><br>If you're an eyeball ISP with 80% of your traffic heading internationally, and you<br>pick up half of the remainder with peering, only 10% of your total traffic mix<br>will need to come from a Go4 member. <br><br>What do you think would happen to bandwidth prices in this country if more of you<br>lot behaved like that, instead of stitching up long-term high-bandwidth transit<br>contracts with
Telstra and Optus, or signing up with VISP suppliers who take away<br>your decision-making control about your bandwidth supplies?<br><br> - mark<br><br><br></pre></blockquote></div></div></div>
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