[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

[Joshua D'Alton]

Indeed not the cable, but the pit.. or the spectrum as currently being
played out in USA.


On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Curtis Bayne <curtis at bayne.com.au> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Well said.
>
> Last time the government owned a monopoly infrastructure provider (Telecom
> Australia), they spent hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars
> overbuilding on top of a competitor (Optus HFC) to protect their business
> model. There is no evidence to suggest they would behave any differently to
> protect their asset should a similar situation arise.
>
> We all hate the copper network, but it is probably safe to say that
> ULL/LSS has been the saving grace of competitive last-mile services and was
> a win for all Australian consumers. Many on this list just wouldn't be here
> without it. We have demonstrated time and time again that, given
> competitive backhaul, ISPs will jump over each other to build
> infrastructure to compete with each other. The fact there are Telstra
> exchanges with limited or no wholesale floorspace left is pretty telling in
> and of itself.
>
> I might even go so far on a limb as to say that it's actually the natural
> monopoly isn't the cable you pull through pit and pipe, but the pit and
> pipe itself...
>
> Regards,
> Curtis
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Paul Wallace <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> The former Gov could have broken Telstra up in the way that many other
>> countries did.
>>
>>
>>
>> But they did not, instead embarking on policy counter to the spirit of
>> that embarked upon by the same side of politics 25 odd years earlier under
>> Hawke/ Keating.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe breaking Telstra up isn’t a 100% fix however it’s far more logical
>> than the path they embarked upon & vastly quicker to bring some respite.
>>
>>
>>
>> If they had done so they would have retained choices vis a vis the
>> changing technologies & landscape.
>>
>>
>>
>> Obviously retaining all the pits/ pipes/ copper in such an acquisition
>> would have neutralised the profoundly politicised arguments that followed
>> pitting fibre against copper.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would also have enabled the visionaries to dream up any number of
>> variations of copper/ fibre alongside residential/ business v migrate or
>> add, price differentials etc. The continuing rollout could have been
>> tweaked and changed in many ways to fit into a rapidly changing telecoms
>> future; but they instead set the fuse on their ‘one size fits all’ neutron
>> bomb policy & now hide behind the prejudicial legal protection enjoyed by
>> politicians & the judiciary when they’re shown to be negligent.
>>
>>
>>
>> If they had enacted & then acquired a separated ‘Telstra Infrastructure
>> Company ’ to do whatever they wished in the future they would not then need
>> to run back to Telstra + the ACCC to negotiate a new arrangement every time
>> they change course (as we’re seeing the current Gov being required to do).
>>
>>
>>
>> e.g
>>
>>
>>
>> they could have acquired the wholesale business from Telstra  business
>> back, & then sell it a consortium of industry players, thus creating some
>> ‘neutrality’, and/ or
>>
>>
>>
>> or just kept it & then rolled FTTN as staging point to get to FTTP and or
>> FTTB, and/ or
>>
>>
>>
>> provided a truthful roadmap to us all after having enjoyed the radically
>> ‘de-politicising process’ policy suggested above, when compared to the
>> policy they did embark on
>>
>>
>>
>> But they did not, instead taking the most naïve course possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now look at the mess … it’s just getting worse. No-body seems happy about
>> the thing now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe not too late though! (and if they did the CAN might gain a great
>> deal more love than it’s seeing today).
>>
>>
>>
>> -P
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Mark
>> Newton
>> *Sent:* Monday, 21 July 2014 3:42 PM
>> *To:* Jacob Gardiner
>> *Cc:* List List
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering
>> breakup?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Jacob Gardiner <jacob at jacobgardiner.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> What about the potential for Australian produced content to be streamed
>> to your nearest internet connected computer or tablet? Or better yet,
>> exported via Netflix to a global audience?
>>
>>
>>
>> How is that *in any way* affected by the peering terms they offer to
>> Australian ISPs?  They can do that already.
>>
>>
>>
>> Netflix solve a distribution issue, they’re not a studio. This being
>> said, Netflix need the infrastructure to be present and that’s what this
>> conversation is about.
>>
>>
>>
>> Netflix already have the infrastructure — they can carry out their entire
>> business from the USA.  Including servicing hypothetical Australian
>> customers.
>>
>>
>>
>> They are also a studio, by the way. Just sayin’.
>>
>>
>>
>>  The NBN idea was meant to stimulate our industry to move beyond what it
>> is now and enable businesses LIKE Netflix to set up and provide new
>> services to Australia. (hence my dig at our dependance on mining)
>>
>>
>>
>> Really? I don’t think that was the Government’s plan for it. I don’t
>> think they thought about those issues at all. For them, it was about
>> restructuring the industry to make up for the failure of the market to
>> magic its way past Telstra’s CAN infrastructure monopoly.
>>
>>
>>
>> There was certainly a lot of woo about what else it was supposed to
>> achieve, so it’s possible that some politician somewhere had a brain
>> explosion and said it was all about “stimulating [Australia’s] [Internet]
>> industry.” He almost certainly didn’t remember saying it 4 hours later,
>> though.
>>
>>
>>
>> IF the government was to talk to a business like Netflix and ask them
>> what a fast growing online business needs to operate they’d hopefully be
>> more receptive than listening to a bunch of complainers (I imagine the
>> government looks at groups like this as whingers).
>>
>>
>>
>> *Why would they want to offer incentives for a business that doesn’t pay
>> tax in Australia, doesn’t employ Australians, doesn’t use profits to
>> benefit Australians, to set up in Australia?*
>>
>>
>>
>> That’s crazy talk. Where’s the Australian public interest in that?
>>
>>
>>
>> Netflix’s involvement in Australia is purely extractive:  Their
>> commercial aim will be to relocate as much cash from our economy to their
>> bank accounts as possible.  They need a grand total of *zero* Australian
>> investment to achieve that.
>>
>>
>>
>> netflix need - good connectivity, everywhere & local film and media
>> content. - I think most people in AU want the same?
>>
>>
>>
>> They need nothing local.  They need *adequate* connectivity, which they
>> already have by virtual of their cheap-and-cheerful transit deals in the
>> USA.
>>
>>
>>
>> The reason you want them to peer is for YOUR needs, not theirs.  YOU
>> don’t want to pay for transit to satisfy your users’ desires to purchase
>> their services.  So YOU are responding in essentially the same way the
>> network neutrality bad guys are responding in the USA, by expecting the
>> Government to swoop in and make Netflix’s cost of operations higher so that
>> yours can be lower.  This isn’t about “most people in AU,” it’s about your
>> business.
>>
>>
>>
>> Australia has *nothing* to offer Netflix, other than bureaucratic
>> interference from ACMA and the Classification Board, and a massively
>> over-inflated sense of entitlement.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I was them, I’d be avoiding Australia simply because it’s too
>> administratively difficult to offer content services here.  Why bother?
>>  Australian voters have clearly signaled that they’re so delighted with
>> inferior expensive choices that they’ll make it very difficult for better
>> choices to arrive, and expect regulators to interfere endlessly with any
>> who do — something they don’t need to deal with anywhere else. So if I was
>> them I’d be spending my money in places where I wouldn’t have to pay a
>> commercial premium for the extra regulatory overheads, unless and until
>> Australian voters changed their tune.
>>
>>
>>
>> Personally: I enjoy using Netflix right now. I aim to continue to do so,
>> regardless of whether they plonk a few racks of servers at Global Switch.
>> If you think they’re so great, why aren’t you using them already too?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   - mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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