[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

Tue Jul 22 10:41:53 EST 2014

This forum is being hijacked by rusted on labour voting script kiddies m8!

LOL

From: curtis.bayne at gmail.com [mailto:curtis.bayne at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Curtis Bayne
Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 4:30 PM
To: Paul Wallace; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

Paul,

Well said.

Last time the government owned a monopoly infrastructure provider (Telecom Australia), they spent hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars overbuilding on top of a competitor (Optus HFC) to protect their business model. There is no evidence to suggest they would behave any differently to protect their asset should a similar situation arise.
We all hate the copper network, but it is probably safe to say that ULL/LSS has been the saving grace of competitive last-mile services and was a win for all Australian consumers. Many on this list just wouldn't be here without it. We have demonstrated time and time again that, given competitive backhaul, ISPs will jump over each other to build infrastructure to compete with each other. The fact there are Telstra exchanges with limited or no wholesale floorspace left is pretty telling in and of itself.
I might even go so far on a limb as to say that it's actually the natural monopoly isn't the cable you pull through pit and pipe, but the pit and pipe itself...

Regards,
Curtis

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Paul Wallace <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au<mailto:paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au>> wrote:
The former Gov could have broken Telstra up in the way that many other countries did.

But they did not, instead embarking on policy counter to the spirit of that embarked upon by the same side of politics 25 odd years earlier under Hawke/ Keating.

Maybe breaking Telstra up isn’t a 100% fix however it’s far more logical than the path they embarked upon & vastly quicker to bring some respite.

If they had done so they would have retained choices vis a vis the changing technologies & landscape.

Obviously retaining all the pits/ pipes/ copper in such an acquisition would have neutralised the profoundly politicised arguments that followed pitting fibre against copper.

It would also have enabled the visionaries to dream up any number of variations of copper/ fibre alongside residential/ business v migrate or add, price differentials etc. The continuing rollout could have been tweaked and changed in many ways to fit into a rapidly changing telecoms future; but they instead set the fuse on their ‘one size fits all’ neutron bomb policy & now hide behind the prejudicial legal protection enjoyed by politicians & the judiciary when they’re shown to be negligent.

If they had enacted & then acquired a separated ‘Telstra Infrastructure Company ’ to do whatever they wished in the future they would not then need to run back to Telstra + the ACCC to negotiate a new arrangement every time they change course (as we’re seeing the current Gov being required to do).

e.g

they could have acquired the wholesale business from Telstra  business back, & then sell it a consortium of industry players, thus creating some ‘neutrality’, and/ or

or just kept it & then rolled FTTN as staging point to get to FTTP and or FTTB, and/ or

provided a truthful roadmap to us all after having enjoyed the radically ‘de-politicising process’ policy suggested above, when compared to the policy they did embark on

But they did not, instead taking the most naïve course possible.

Now look at the mess … it’s just getting worse. No-body seems happy about the thing now.

Maybe not too late though! (and if they did the CAN might gain a great deal more love than it’s seeing today).

-P

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 3:42 PM
To: Jacob Gardiner
Cc: List List

Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

On Jul 21, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Jacob Gardiner <jacob at jacobgardiner.com<mailto:jacob at jacobgardiner.com>> wrote:

What about the potential for Australian produced content to be streamed to your nearest internet connected computer or tablet? Or better yet, exported via Netflix to a global audience?

How is that in any way affected by the peering terms they offer to Australian ISPs?  They can do that already.

Netflix solve a distribution issue, they’re not a studio. This being said, Netflix need the infrastructure to be present and that’s what this conversation is about.

Netflix already have the infrastructure — they can carry out their entire business from the USA.  Including servicing hypothetical Australian customers.

They are also a studio, by the way. Just sayin’.

The NBN idea was meant to stimulate our industry to move beyond what it is now and enable businesses LIKE Netflix to set up and provide new services to Australia. (hence my dig at our dependance on mining)

Really? I don’t think that was the Government’s plan for it. I don’t think they thought about those issues at all. For them, it was about restructuring the industry to make up for the failure of the market to magic its way past Telstra’s CAN infrastructure monopoly.

There was certainly a lot of woo about what else it was supposed to achieve, so it’s possible that some politician somewhere had a brain explosion and said it was all about “stimulating [Australia’s] [Internet] industry.” He almost certainly didn’t remember saying it 4 hours later, though.

IF the government was to talk to a business like Netflix and ask them what a fast growing online business needs to operate they’d hopefully be more receptive than listening to a bunch of complainers (I imagine the government looks at groups like this as whingers).

Why would they want to offer incentives for a business that doesn’t pay tax in Australia, doesn’t employ Australians, doesn’t use profits to benefit Australians, to set up in Australia?

That’s crazy talk. Where’s the Australian public interest in that?

Netflix’s involvement in Australia is purely extractive:  Their commercial aim will be to relocate as much cash from our economy to their bank accounts as possible.  They need a grand total of zero Australian investment to achieve that.

netflix need - good connectivity, everywhere & local film and media content. - I think most people in AU want the same?

They need nothing local.  They need adequate connectivity, which they already have by virtual of their cheap-and-cheerful transit deals in the USA.

The reason you want them to peer is for YOUR needs, not theirs.  YOU don’t want to pay for transit to satisfy your users’ desires to purchase their services.  So YOU are responding in essentially the same way the network neutrality bad guys are responding in the USA, by expecting the Government to swoop in and make Netflix’s cost of operations higher so that yours can be lower.  This isn’t about “most people in AU,” it’s about your business.

Australia has nothing to offer Netflix, other than bureaucratic interference from ACMA and the Classification Board, and a massively over-inflated sense of entitlement.

If I was them, I’d be avoiding Australia simply because it’s too administratively difficult to offer content services here.  Why bother?  Australian voters have clearly signaled that they’re so delighted with inferior expensive choices that they’ll make it very difficult for better choices to arrive, and expect regulators to interfere endlessly with any who do — something they don’t need to deal with anywhere else. So if I was them I’d be spending my money in places where I wouldn’t have to pay a commercial premium for the extra regulatory overheads, unless and until Australian voters changed their tune.

Personally: I enjoy using Netflix right now. I aim to continue to do so, regardless of whether they plonk a few racks of servers at Global Switch. If you think they’re so great, why aren’t you using them already too?

  - mark

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