[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

[Curtis Bayne]

Paul,

Well said.

Last time the government owned a monopoly infrastructure provider (Telecom
Australia), they spent hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars
overbuilding on top of a competitor (Optus HFC) to protect their business
model. There is no evidence to suggest they would behave any differently to
protect their asset should a similar situation arise.

We all hate the copper network, but it is probably safe to say that ULL/LSS
has been the saving grace of competitive last-mile services and was a win
for all Australian consumers. Many on this list just wouldn't be here
without it. We have demonstrated time and time again that, given
competitive backhaul, ISPs will jump over each other to build
infrastructure to compete with each other. The fact there are Telstra
exchanges with limited or no wholesale floorspace left is pretty telling in
and of itself.

I might even go so far on a limb as to say that it's actually the natural
monopoly isn't the cable you pull through pit and pipe, but the pit and
pipe itself...

Regards,
Curtis


On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Paul Wallace <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au>
wrote:

> The former Gov could have broken Telstra up in the way that many other
> countries did.
>
>
>
> But they did not, instead embarking on policy counter to the spirit of
> that embarked upon by the same side of politics 25 odd years earlier under
> Hawke/ Keating.
>
>
>
> Maybe breaking Telstra up isn’t a 100% fix however it’s far more logical
> than the path they embarked upon & vastly quicker to bring some respite.
>
>
>
> If they had done so they would have retained choices vis a vis the
> changing technologies & landscape.
>
>
>
> Obviously retaining all the pits/ pipes/ copper in such an acquisition
> would have neutralised the profoundly politicised arguments that followed
> pitting fibre against copper.
>
>
>
> It would also have enabled the visionaries to dream up any number of
> variations of copper/ fibre alongside residential/ business v migrate or
> add, price differentials etc. The continuing rollout could have been
> tweaked and changed in many ways to fit into a rapidly changing telecoms
> future; but they instead set the fuse on their ‘one size fits all’ neutron
> bomb policy & now hide behind the prejudicial legal protection enjoyed by
> politicians & the judiciary when they’re shown to be negligent.
>
>
>
> If they had enacted & then acquired a separated ‘Telstra Infrastructure
> Company ’ to do whatever they wished in the future they would not then need
> to run back to Telstra + the ACCC to negotiate a new arrangement every time
> they change course (as we’re seeing the current Gov being required to do).
>
>
>
> e.g
>
>
>
> they could have acquired the wholesale business from Telstra  business
> back, & then sell it a consortium of industry players, thus creating some
> ‘neutrality’, and/ or
>
>
>
> or just kept it & then rolled FTTN as staging point to get to FTTP and or
> FTTB, and/ or
>
>
>
> provided a truthful roadmap to us all after having enjoyed the radically
> ‘de-politicising process’ policy suggested above, when compared to the
> policy they did embark on
>
>
>
> But they did not, instead taking the most naïve course possible.
>
>
>
> Now look at the mess … it’s just getting worse. No-body seems happy about
> the thing now.
>
>
>
> Maybe not too late though! (and if they did the CAN might gain a great
> deal more love than it’s seeing today).
>
>
>
> -P
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Mark
> Newton
> *Sent:* Monday, 21 July 2014 3:42 PM
> *To:* Jacob Gardiner
> *Cc:* List List
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering
> breakup?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Jacob Gardiner <jacob at jacobgardiner.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> What about the potential for Australian produced content to be streamed to
> your nearest internet connected computer or tablet? Or better yet, exported
> via Netflix to a global audience?
>
>
>
> How is that *in any way* affected by the peering terms they offer to
> Australian ISPs?  They can do that already.
>
>
>
> Netflix solve a distribution issue, they’re not a studio. This being said,
> Netflix need the infrastructure to be present and that’s what this
> conversation is about.
>
>
>
> Netflix already have the infrastructure — they can carry out their entire
> business from the USA.  Including servicing hypothetical Australian
> customers.
>
>
>
> They are also a studio, by the way. Just sayin’.
>
>
>
> The NBN idea was meant to stimulate our industry to move beyond what it is
> now and enable businesses LIKE Netflix to set up and provide new services
> to Australia. (hence my dig at our dependance on mining)
>
>
>
> Really? I don’t think that was the Government’s plan for it. I don’t think
> they thought about those issues at all. For them, it was about
> restructuring the industry to make up for the failure of the market to
> magic its way past Telstra’s CAN infrastructure monopoly.
>
>
>
> There was certainly a lot of woo about what else it was supposed to
> achieve, so it’s possible that some politician somewhere had a brain
> explosion and said it was all about “stimulating [Australia’s] [Internet]
> industry.” He almost certainly didn’t remember saying it 4 hours later,
> though.
>
>
>
> IF the government was to talk to a business like Netflix and ask them what
> a fast growing online business needs to operate they’d hopefully be more
> receptive than listening to a bunch of complainers (I imagine the
> government looks at groups like this as whingers).
>
>
>
> *Why would they want to offer incentives for a business that doesn’t pay
> tax in Australia, doesn’t employ Australians, doesn’t use profits to
> benefit Australians, to set up in Australia?*
>
>
>
> That’s crazy talk. Where’s the Australian public interest in that?
>
>
>
> Netflix’s involvement in Australia is purely extractive:  Their commercial
> aim will be to relocate as much cash from our economy to their bank
> accounts as possible.  They need a grand total of *zero* Australian
> investment to achieve that.
>
>
>
> netflix need - good connectivity, everywhere & local film and media
> content. - I think most people in AU want the same?
>
>
>
> They need nothing local.  They need *adequate* connectivity, which they
> already have by virtual of their cheap-and-cheerful transit deals in the
> USA.
>
>
>
> The reason you want them to peer is for YOUR needs, not theirs.  YOU don’t
> want to pay for transit to satisfy your users’ desires to purchase their
> services.  So YOU are responding in essentially the same way the network
> neutrality bad guys are responding in the USA, by expecting the Government
> to swoop in and make Netflix’s cost of operations higher so that yours can
> be lower.  This isn’t about “most people in AU,” it’s about your business.
>
>
>
> Australia has *nothing* to offer Netflix, other than bureaucratic
> interference from ACMA and the Classification Board, and a massively
> over-inflated sense of entitlement.
>
>
>
> If I was them, I’d be avoiding Australia simply because it’s too
> administratively difficult to offer content services here.  Why bother?
>  Australian voters have clearly signaled that they’re so delighted with
> inferior expensive choices that they’ll make it very difficult for better
> choices to arrive, and expect regulators to interfere endlessly with any
> who do — something they don’t need to deal with anywhere else. So if I was
> them I’d be spending my money in places where I wouldn’t have to pay a
> commercial premium for the extra regulatory overheads, unless and until
> Australian voters changed their tune.
>
>
>
> Personally: I enjoy using Netflix right now. I aim to continue to do so,
> regardless of whether they plonk a few racks of servers at Global Switch.
> If you think they’re so great, why aren’t you using them already too?
>
>
>
>
>
>   - mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/20140721/13360447/attachment-0001.html>