[AusNOG] CloudFlare: The Relative Cost of Bandwidth Around the World

Wed Aug 27 01:31:10 EST 2014

I'm aware. 1:20 is not a realistic number for paid peering from Telstra.

Not only that but they've completely ignored backhaul costs.

Getting 100GE between AMS-IX, NL-ix, LINX and DE-CIX is significantly
cheaper then going between Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney, Perth (which
Telstra would also be doing for them if they purchased paid peering)

That's the equivalent of writing a blog post that you are paying slightly
more to Comcast because they have to haul it from the East Coast to the
West Coast USA. I suspect in the USA Cloudflare take ports in different
transit hubs, even for the same provider.

On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, Ben Grubb <bgrubb at fairfaxmedia.com.au> wrote:

> $200/Mbps isn't the real figure.
>
> From the post: "We don't disclose exactly what we pay for transit, but I
> can give you a relative sense of regional differences. To start, let's
> assume as a benchmark in North America you'd pay a blended average across
> all the transit providers of $10/Mbps. In reality, we pay less than that,
> but it can serve as a benchmark, and keep the numbers round as we compare
> regions. If you assume that benchmark, for every 1,000Mbps (1Gbps) you'd
> pay $10,000/month (again, acknowledge that’s higher than reality, it’s just
> an illustrative benchmark and keeps the numbers round, bear with me)."
>
> So he's just using $10 as a starting for North America and saying whatever
> the actual figure is it's 20x that here.
>
> In reality It's probably a difference of $1/Mbps to $20/Mbps.
>
> It's a 1:20 ratio is his point
>
> Regards,
> Ben Grubb
>
>
> On 27 August 2014 00:36, Cameron Ferdinands <cameron at jferdinands.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cameron at jferdinands.com');>> wrote:
>
>> What about PIPE IX? and PPC-1? A few years ago? PIPE was founded in
>> 2001. Joe's been doing a fantastic job at WAIA too.
>>
>> There's still several networks in AUS that don't peer either or only
>> present at a single location. (not GoF), including some big big
>> content providers.
>>
>> $200mbit ? Hardly, those numbers were clearly pulled out of somewhere.
>> I also highly doubt they don't participate in paid peering agreements
>> in other regions too. This article is junk.
>>
>> On 27 August 2014 00:15, Wolfgang Nagele (AusRegistry)
>> <wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au');>>
>> wrote:
>> > Australia is making huge strides towards better interconnection. A few
>> years
>> > ago there was almost no Internet Exchange capacity in use but rather
>> > capacity was bought via transit. Nowadays you have Megaport and WAIA
>> present
>> > in most states and there is a lot of content exchanged via these
>> platforms.
>> >
>> > Fixing Telstra by regulation is a whole different story ...
>> >
>> > On 8/27/14, 12:08 AM, "Ben Grubb" <bgrubb at fairfaxmedia.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bgrubb at fairfaxmedia.com.au');>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Sure but there's hardly been any discussion of late on this and the
>> impact
>> > it has on the Australian market.
>> >
>> > Net neutrality has barely rated a mention in Australia since 2008.
>> Combine
>> > it with NBN Co's CVC charge and it's not looking like Australia will
>> become
>> > attractive for content players at all. Do we want that?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Ben Grubb
>> >
>> >
>> > On 27 August 2014 00:06, Wolfgang Nagele (AusRegistry)
>> > <wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au');>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just look into Netflix + <insert large eyeball network name here> in
>> the
>> >> US. It’s not an Australian thing. It’s been the “war” between eyeball
>> >> networks and content for a while.
>> >>
>> >> On 8/27/14, 12:04 AM, "Ben Grubb" <bgrubb at fairfaxmedia.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bgrubb at fairfaxmedia.com.au');>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Sure. Doesn't make it right though.
>> >>
>> >> When talking about the Australian market though are there others
>> besides
>> >> Telstra using similar tactics?
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Ben Grubb
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 27 August 2014 00:02, Wolfgang Nagele (AusRegistry)
>> >> <wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au');>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Simply not true that Telstra is the only one doing this. Deutsche
>> Telekom
>> >>> has been known to use the same practice for now decades. Swisscom,
>> same
>> >>> thing.
>> >>>
>> >>> All of the Gorillas are doing this. Sadly.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 8/26/14, 11:35 PM, "Ben Grubb" <bgrubb at fairfaxmedia.com.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bgrubb at fairfaxmedia.com.au');>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm planning on writing about this guys for the SMH. Matt at
>> CloudFlare
>> >>> gave me the heads up earlier.
>> >>>
>> >>> If anyone feels like ranting to me about this, drop me a line :)
>> >>>
>> >>> It's really interesting IMO, especially considering it's in Telstra's
>> >>> best interest with its 50% stake in Foxtel to keep content players
>> like
>> >>> Netflix away. Only way to do that is by charging them ridiculous
>> transit
>> >>> fees.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Ben Grubb
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 26 August 2014 23:30, James Andrewartha <trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au');>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> http://blog.cloudflare.com/the-relative-cost-of-bandwidth-around-the-world
>> >>>> via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8226654
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Australia is the most expensive region in which we operate, but for
>> an
>> >>>> interesting reason. We peer with virtually every ISP in the region
>> >>>> except
>> >>>> one: Telstra. Telstra, which controls approximately 50% of the
>> market,
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> was traditionally the monopoly telecom provider, charges some of the
>> >>>> highest transit pricing in the world — 20x the benchmark
>> ($200/Mbps)."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Not quite news, but it's still interesting to see the relative
>> numbers.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> # TRS-80              trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ "Otherwise Bub
>> here
>> >>>> will do \
>> >>>> # UCC Wheel Member     http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #|  what squirrels
>> do
>> >>>> best     |
>> >>>> [ "There's nobody getting rich writing          ]|  -- Collect and
>> hide
>> >>>> your   |
>> >>>> [  software that I know of" -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\  nuts." -- Acid
>> >>>> Reflux #231 /
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> AusNOG mailing list
>> >>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net');>
>> >>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying
>> >>> files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, any
>> >>> use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this
>> e-mail
>> >>> or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to
>> copyright.
>> >>> No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without
>> the
>> >>> written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this
>> e-mail in
>> >>> error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or
>> telephone and
>> >>> delete all copies. Fairfax Media does not guarantee the accuracy or
>> >>> completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached
>> files.
>> >>> Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax Media does
>> not
>> >>> accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or
>> attached
>> >>> files.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying
>> >> files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, any
>> >> use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this
>> e-mail
>> >> or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to
>> copyright.
>> >> No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the
>> >> written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this
>> e-mail in
>> >> error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or
>> telephone and
>> >> delete all copies. Fairfax Media does not guarantee the accuracy or
>> >> completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached
>> files.
>> >> Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax Media does
>> not
>> >> accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or
>> attached
>> >> files.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying
>> files
>> > is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any
>> use,
>> > dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail
>> or
>> > any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to
>> copyright. No
>> > part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the
>> written
>> > consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in
>> error
>> > please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and
>> > delete all copies. Fairfax Media does not guarantee the accuracy or
>> > completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached
>> files.
>> > Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax Media does not
>> > accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached
>> > files.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > AusNOG mailing list
>> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net');>
>> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> >
>>
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying
> files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any
> use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this
> e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to
> copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated
> without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received
> this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail
> or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax Media does not guarantee the
> accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or
> attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax
> Media does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message
> or attached files.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/20140827/7bfbe902/attachment.html>