[AusNOG] Discussion point: Why aren't the NBNCo tails symmetric in speed?

Tony td_miles at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 9 11:37:27 EST 2014 

My understanding is you are entirely correct, you would need TC-2 & TC-4  
CVC's if you wanted to deliver both types of traffic, you can't mix them  
up.

What I was comparing was on the basis that if you wanted to provide only  
one of them over the other one, then the only cost differential is the  
extra tail cost of $218/mon.

Assuming you don't want to contend your CVC (and isn't that the whole  
point of TC-2 ?) then a 40/40M TC-2 service is going to cost $256 + $800 =  
$1056/mon. This would provide a service that I think would be comparable  
to me currently purchasing a p2p fibre service from any existing carrier  
(CIR = tail speed, non-contended the whole way). I don't know what others  
might say, but I feel that $1000/mon for a 40M fibre service is not very  
competitive with comparable offerings in this space ?


regards,
Tony.


On Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:37:25 +1000, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au> wrote:

> I was personally reading it as you need to purchase 2x lots of CVC, one  
> for each Traffic Class, so your TC-4 circuits will deliver over your  
> TC-4 CVC (only), and your TC-2 circuits will deliver over your TC-2 CVC,  
> so if you wanted to supply both TC-4 and TC-2 services, you'd be  
> spending $2000/100mbps x 2 on top of the circuit costs, rather than  
> $2000/100mbps x 1 and both TC's share it.
>
> Could well be wrong though.
>
> On 09/04/14 10:34, Tony wrote:
>> From what I can see in the doco, the CVC costs for TC-4 & TC-2 are the  
>> same (1.2 a & c) ? They are both $2000/100Mbps ? Regardless of whether  
>> you want to offer TC-2 or TC-4 this component of the cost model seems  
>> to stay the same ?
>>
>> Does this mean that the only difference* in the cost of 40M TC-2  
>> compared to 40M TC-4 is the difference in the AVC/UNI component, which  
>> is $38 for 100/40 TC-4 and $256 for 40/40 TC-2 (so $218 extra) ?
>>
>> Am I reading that right ?
>>
>>
>> * Of course you get 100/40 on a TC-4 service compared to 40/40 on a  
>> TC-2, but I am comparing them on the basis of being able to provide a  
>> 40M symmetrical service over both of them.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tony.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 09 Apr 2014 09:39:03 +1000, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looking at the document, TC-2 symmetrical service for 40M (highest  
>>> available) is a lease of $256.00 / month for the EU circuit, +  
>>> associated costs of TC-2 CVC ($1,000.00 for 50mbit starting point).
>>>
>>> On 09/04/14 09:32, Tony wrote:
>>>> "recently" as in 21 days in the future from now ! That doc is dated  
>>>> 30/04/2014 ;)
>>>>
>>>> As others have already stated, the asymmetrical nature of the tail  
>>>> speeds is due to the use of GPON.
>>>>
>>>> I would assume the 40M/40M TC2 product is just a 100/40 tail with the  
>>>> downstream limited to 40M to make it symmetrical ?
>>>>
>>>> It's interesting to see TC2 available now. Is TC3 released yet ?
>>>>
>>>> If you want a symmetrical tail above 40M, then you're still going to  
>>>> be better going to the traditional carriers that you would use now.  
>>>> IF at some point in the future NBN fibre is actually rolled out and  
>>>> IF at some point the 1000/400 product becomes widely available and IF  
>>>> TC3 is available for the full 1000/400 of the service then it would  
>>>> be something that MIGHT compete with going and buying fibre from  
>>>> whoever you would now. About two years ago Telstra & Optus (and quite  
>>>> probably AAPT, PIPE, others as well) dropped the pricing on a 100M  
>>>> fibre tail service in anticipation of competition from NBN. This is  
>>>> guaranteed 100M symmetrical bandwidth between the two points, no  
>>>> asymmetrical and I don't have to buy some "class" of traffic to make  
>>>> sure my traffic makes it from A to B.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure of which of all of those bits in the NBN pricelist I  
>>>> need. Can someone who knows tell me what it would cost for that 40M  
>>>> symmetrical TC2 service from NBN ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Tony.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 09 Apr 2014 08:09:10 +1000, myNBN Admin <admin at mynbn.info>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recently, NBN Co made TC-2 AVCs available that do provide  
>>>>> symmetrical speeds of up to 40Mbps/40Mbps.  This isn't Traffic Class  
>>>>> 4… but it is a symmetrical product provided by NBN Co.
>>>>>
>>>>> See Page 6 for pricing:  
>>>>> http://nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco/documents/sfaa-wba2-product-catalogue-price-list_20140430.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Kenneth Tsang
>>>>>
>>>>> myNBN.info | creator and developer
>>>>> E: admin at mynbn.info | T: @mynbninfo
>>>>>
>>>>> myNBN is not affiliated with NBN Co and is an independent tracking  
>>>>> website.  This email is confidential and is subject to copyright.  
>>>>> They are intended solely for the intended addressee of the  
>>>>> electronic mail and may only be copied, distributed or disclosed  
>>>>> with the consent of the copyright owner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, 7 April 2014 at 8:52 PM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sure this will spurn a healthy discussion... perhaps with  
>>>>>> conflicting views...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I was wondering the other day 'Why aren't NBNCo tails sold as  
>>>>>> symmetric speeds?'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Considering:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - The transit the RSP buys is symmetric (nearly always)
>>>>>> - The network core of the RSP is symmetric
>>>>>> - The handoff to either NBNCo or an aggregator (and then NBNCo) is  
>>>>>> pretty much always symmetric
>>>>>> - The PoI's core is symmetric
>>>>>> - The fibre to the home is symmetric capable
>>>>>> - The NTU is just ethernet - symmetric
>>>>>> - Anything they plug into the NTU is symmetrical - ethernet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Google Fibre in the US is 1G/1G in speeds...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So... unless I am missing something obvious (always possible)...  
>>>>>> Why are NBNCo tails not sold as symmetrical speeds?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not sure why there is this artificial design in these products  
>>>>>> to make them asymmetric.  There doesn't seem to be any gain by  
>>>>>> doing this that I can think of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gone are the days of DSL like speeds and unbalanced design... even  
>>>>>> ATM was symmetrical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keen for peoples opinions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...Skeeve
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