[AusNOG] GoodBye NBN

Mon Sep 9 11:52:34 EST 2013

The simple fact stands that short effective life of FTTN is becoming
apparent, and countries which previously installed FTTN systems (UK,
Germany , NZ ) are now slowly replacing their networks with Fibre to the
Premises (FTTP).

Agreed Liberals are in and this whole discussion is pointless I guess we
wait until the above happens then we can revisit and say "We told you so"

Regards, *
Peter Betyounan*
Chief Technical Officer

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Phone:                  1300 788 862
Network Ops:       (02) 8115 8850
Web:                      *http://www.serversaustralia.com.au*
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*Please consider the environment before printing this email - every year we
are losing 40 million acres of oxygen producing forests through logging and
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On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:40 AM, James Hodgkinson <yaleman at ricetek.net>wrote:

> "People" really don't understand anything more than "that Turnbull guy
> said it would be cheaper and faster"... even some of the guys in my team
> agree with that viewpoint. :'(
>
> James
>
>
> On 9 September 2013 11:28, Paul Wallace <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Last Saturday the people of Australia voted the supporters of FTTH out on
>> & voted the supporters of FTTN in.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> That tells us that more people don’t care about the problems to do with
>> the copper CAN than people who do care.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Jake Anderson [mailto:yahoo at vapourforge.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 09, 2013 11:20 AM
>> *To:* Paul Wallace
>> *Cc:* Chard, Alex (RET-SYD); Peter Betyounan; Noel Butler;
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> It is a logical position.
>> You are trading one set of flaws for another, if that trade results in a
>> net gain then it is a "good thing".
>>
>> The only flaw that has been identified with the FTTH *network* in this
>> discussion (not the applications such as voip running over said network) is
>> operation in a blackout lasting longer than 4 hours (or 8 hours if you can
>> get the person to press the emergency button).
>>
>> This is a solvable problem, you can supply power at a location with any
>> level of reliability that you desire, Put some bigass batteries in and a
>> solar panel if you have to, hell put a mini diesel generator in as well if
>> you are really worried. However the number of people who would benefit from
>> this to my mind is small and shrinking.
>>
>> The copper network also has major failures, what happens when it rains
>> and the lines get "crossed" to the point you can't dial out or understand a
>> call you are receiving, or they just crap out totally, this happens to my
>> father about once a year. Or when there is a flood in QLD and nothing works
>> till it dries out again.
>> The solution to this problem is to run new copper, which I feel given the
>> solvable nature of the FTTH systems issues and its benefits in operation is
>> a bad trade.
>>
>> Now FTTN will take coppers problems and make them worse I feel, unless
>> they have waterproof nodes now?
>>
>> On 09/09/13 10:59, Paul Wallace wrote:****
>>
>> I agree …****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> It’s not logical to suggest that we should replace the copper network
>> because it’s flawed to then suggest that it’s OK that the new network is
>> flawed.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> -P****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Chard, Alex (RET-SYD)
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 09, 2013 10:56 AM
>> *To:* Peter Betyounan; Noel Butler
>> *Cc:* AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> I can’t agree with this argument. It’s nothing to do with planning for
>> the older generation.****
>>
>> The problems mentioned below are real problems. And they *are not*problems that are insurmountable.
>> ****
>>
>> They *are* problems that should be addressed.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Nobody here is saying ‘stop the NBN rollout, old people can’t cope with
>> it’ (or at least I hope they are not).****
>>
>> They are pointing out problems that need looking at.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> But your assertion below is not valid, because cars with all these fancy
>> new features that old people don’t have the skills to use still go when you
>> press the accelerator, and stop when you press the brake.****
>>
>> They have no broken features… and are ‘backwards compatible’ with old
>> people J****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> --Alex Chard****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Peter Betyounan
>> *Sent:* Monday, 9 September 2013 10:45 AM
>> *To:* Noel Butler
>> *Cc:* AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Again planning for the older generation not the current or next, it's
>> like saying hey lets stop building more advance cars with parking assist,
>> GPS, reverse parking sensors, fancy alarms because the older generation
>> don't have the technical skills for them. ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Regards, *
>> Peter Betyounan*****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Noel Butler <noel.butler at ausics.net>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 10:23 +1000, Robert Hudson wrote: ****
>>
>> On 9 September 2013 10:15, Noel Butler <noel.butler at ausics.net> wrote: **
>> **
>>
>>   ****
>>
>> So, your landlines die after an hour of power outage now? find that hard
>> to believe... sniff sniff, yes, troll day appears to have come early this
>> week..****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> To be fair, many people with cordless phones (and there are lots) would
>> start having issues pretty quickly into a power outage.  Sure, a corded
>> phone may still work, but many people don't have them. ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> thats there problem, you can buy cheap wired sets for 10 bucks from
>> places like Sams warehouse****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> and as for portable, how many old folk (70/80+) run around living on
>> their mobiles. SFA thats how many.
>> just because the average person and their inner circles here live on the
>> things, dont assume the rest of the population does as well.
>> and the elderly are the MOST and highest "at risk"   from this change. **
>> **
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> My 88yo grandmother has a mobile phone that she answers more regularly
>> than she answers her landline (which, FYI, has a cordless phone connected
>> to it).  I'd suggest assumptions are bad no matter who's argument they're
>> supporting. :) ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Maybe so, my dad who's approaching 80 also has one,mum does not, and does
>> not want one either, but none of his, or mum's friends do have one. I would
>> expect people related to technical people may, but don't go assuming they
>> all do, if I went up to the RSL on a packet out Saturday arvo and held a
>> vote I'd be betting maybe only 10/20 might have one.
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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