[AusNOG] GoodBye NBN

Mon Sep 9 11:19:50 EST 2013

It is a logical position.
You are trading one set of flaws for another, if that trade results in a 
net gain then it is a "good thing".

The only flaw that has been identified with the FTTH *network* in this 
discussion (not the applications such as voip running over said network) 
is operation in a blackout lasting longer than 4 hours (or 8 hours if 
you can get the person to press the emergency button).

This is a solvable problem, you can supply power at a location with any 
level of reliability that you desire, Put some bigass batteries in and a 
solar panel if you have to, hell put a mini diesel generator in as well 
if you are really worried. However the number of people who would 
benefit from this to my mind is small and shrinking.

The copper network also has major failures, what happens when it rains 
and the lines get "crossed" to the point you can't dial out or 
understand a call you are receiving, or they just crap out totally, this 
happens to my father about once a year. Or when there is a flood in QLD 
and nothing works till it dries out again.
The solution to this problem is to run new copper, which I feel given 
the solvable nature of the FTTH systems issues and its benefits in 
operation is a bad trade.

Now FTTN will take coppers problems and make them worse I feel, unless 
they have waterproof nodes now?

On 09/09/13 10:59, Paul Wallace wrote:
>
> I agree ...
>
> It's not logical to suggest that we should replace the copper network 
> because it's flawed to then suggest that it's OK that the new network 
> is flawed.
>
> -P
>
> *From:*AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of 
> *Chard, Alex (RET-SYD)
> *Sent:* Monday, September 09, 2013 10:56 AM
> *To:* Peter Betyounan; Noel Butler
> *Cc:* AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN
>
> I can't agree with this argument. It's nothing to do with planning for 
> the older generation.
>
> The problems mentioned below are real problems. And they *are not* 
> problems that are insurmountable.
>
> They *are* problems that should be addressed.
>
> Nobody here is saying 'stop the NBN rollout, old people can't cope 
> with it' (or at least I hope they are not).
>
> They are pointing out problems that need looking at.
>
> But your assertion below is not valid, because cars with all these 
> fancy new features that old people don't have the skills to use still 
> go when you press the accelerator, and stop when you press the brake.
>
> They have no broken features... and are 'backwards compatible' with 
> old people J
>
> --Alex Chard
>
> *From:*AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of 
> *Peter Betyounan
> *Sent:* Monday, 9 September 2013 10:45 AM
> *To:* Noel Butler
> *Cc:* AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net <mailto:AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN
>
> Again planning for the older generation not the current or next, it's 
> like saying hey lets stop building more advance cars with parking 
> assist, GPS, reverse parking sensors, fancy alarms because the older 
> generation don't have the technical skills for them.
>
>
> Regards, *
> Peter Betyounan*
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Noel Butler <noel.butler at ausics.net 
> <mailto:noel.butler at ausics.net>> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 10:23 +1000, Robert Hudson wrote:
>
> On 9 September 2013 10:15, Noel Butler <noel.butler at ausics.net 
> <mailto:noel.butler at ausics.net>> wrote:
>
>         So, your landlines die after an hour of power outage now? find
>         that hard to believe... sniff sniff, yes, troll day appears to
>         have come early this week..
>
>     To be fair, many people with cordless phones (and there are lots)
>     would start having issues pretty quickly into a power outage.
>      Sure, a corded phone may still work, but many people don't have
>     them.
>
> thats there problem, you can buy cheap wired sets for 10 bucks from 
> places like Sams warehouse
>
>
>
>
>     and as for portable, how many old folk (70/80+) run around living
>     on their mobiles. SFA thats how many.
>     just because the average person and their inner circles here live
>     on the things, dont assume the rest of the population does as well.
>     and the elderly are the MOST and highest "at risk"   from this
>     change.
>
>     My 88yo grandmother has a mobile phone that she answers more
>     regularly than she answers her landline (which, FYI, has a
>     cordless phone connected to it).  I'd suggest assumptions are bad
>     no matter who's argument they're supporting. :)
>
> Maybe so, my dad who's approaching 80 also has one,mum does not, and 
> does not want one either, but none of his, or mum's friends do have 
> one. I would expect people related to technical people may, but don't 
> go assuming they all do, if I went up to the RSL on a packet out 
> Saturday arvo and held a vote I'd be betting maybe only 10/20 might 
> have one.
>
>
>
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