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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It is a logical position. <br>
You are trading one set of flaws for another, if that trade
results in a net gain then it is a "good thing".<br>
<br>
The only flaw that has been identified with the FTTH *network* in
this discussion (not the applications such as voip running over
said network) is operation in a blackout lasting longer than 4
hours (or 8 hours if you can get the person to press the emergency
button).<br>
<br>
This is a solvable problem, you can supply power at a location
with any level of reliability that you desire, Put some bigass
batteries in and a solar panel if you have to, hell put a mini
diesel generator in as well if you are really worried. However the
number of people who would benefit from this to my mind is small
and shrinking.<br>
<br>
The copper network also has major failures, what happens when it
rains and the lines get "crossed" to the point you can't dial out
or understand a call you are receiving, or they just crap out
totally, this happens to my father about once a year. Or when
there is a flood in QLD and nothing works till it dries out again.
<br>
The solution to this problem is to run new copper, which I feel
given the solvable nature of the FTTH systems issues and its
benefits in operation is a bad trade.<br>
<br>
Now FTTN will take coppers problems and make them worse I feel,
unless they have waterproof nodes now?<br>
<br>
On 09/09/13 10:59, Paul Wallace wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
agree …<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It’s
not logical to suggest that we should replace the copper
network because it’s flawed to then suggest that it’s OK
that the new network is flawed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-P<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
AusNOG [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Chard, Alex (RET-SYD)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 09, 2013 10:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Betyounan; Noel Butler<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">I can’t agree with this argument. It’s
nothing to do with planning for the older generation.</span><span
lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">The problems mentioned below are real
problems. And they <b>are not</b> problems that are
insurmountable.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">They <b>are</b> problems that should be
addressed.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">Nobody here is saying ‘stop the NBN rollout,
old people can’t cope with it’ (or at least I hope they
are not).</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">They are pointing out problems that need
looking at.</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">But your assertion below is not valid,
because cars with all these fancy new features that old
people don’t have the skills to use still go when you
press the accelerator, and stop when you press the brake.</span><span
lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">They have no broken features… and are
‘backwards compatible’ with old people </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">J</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU">--Alex Chard</span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-AU"> </span><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Betyounan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 9 September 2013 10:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Noel Butler<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] GoodBye NBN</span><span
lang="EN-AU"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Again planning for
the older generation not the current or next, it's like
saying hey lets stop building more advance cars with
parking assist, GPS, reverse parking sensors, fancy
alarms because the older generation don't have the
technical skills for them. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><br
clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Regards, <b><span
style="color:#073763"><br>
Peter Betyounan</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">On Mon,
Sep 9, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Noel Butler <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net"
target="_blank">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">On
Mon, 2013-09-09 at 10:23 +1000, Robert
Hudson wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">On 9
September 2013 10:15, Noel Butler <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net"
target="_blank">noel.butler@ausics.net</a>>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-AU">So, your landlines die
after an hour of power outage now?
find that hard to believe... sniff
sniff, yes, troll day appears to have
come early this week..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">To
be fair, many people with cordless
phones (and there are lots) would start
having issues pretty quickly into a
power outage. Sure, a corded phone may
still work, but many people don't have
them. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">thats
there problem, you can buy cheap wired sets
for 10 bucks from places like Sams warehouse<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-AU"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">and
as for portable, how many old folk
(70/80+) run around living on their
mobiles. SFA thats how many. <br>
just because the average person and
their inner circles here live on the
things, dont assume the rest of the
population does as well.<br>
and the elderly are the MOST and highest
"at risk" from this change. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">My
88yo grandmother has a mobile phone that
she answers more regularly than she
answers her landline (which, FYI, has a
cordless phone connected to it). I'd
suggest assumptions are bad no matter
who's argument they're supporting. :) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-AU">Maybe so, my dad who's
approaching 80 also has one,mum does not,
and does not want one either, but none of
his, or mum's friends do have one. I would
expect people related to technical people
may, but don't go assuming they all do, if I
went up to the RSL on a packet out Saturday
arvo and held a vote I'd be betting maybe
only 10/20 might have one.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-AU"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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