[AusNOG] IPv4

Sat Mar 2 20:08:00 EST 2013

Wish Optus or Telstra had ipv6, they didn't on world ipv6 day and still no major push to have it ( happy to be corrected on this)

Sent from my iPad

On 02/03/2013, at 7:18 PM, "Alastair Johnson" <aj at sneep.net> wrote:

> Seems like an over-dramatization. Free.fr, Comcast, AT&T have had IPv6 available on their networks for some time without this sort of issue.
> 
> This is precisely what World IPv6 Day and World IPv6 Launch were about -- to combat this kind of thinking and prove that such a scenario is unlikely or extremely rare.
> 
> I have native IPv6 at home, on by default from my ISP (Comcast) and it just works. Oh, and 16% of my traffic goes over IPv6 every day. This number is so low only because the VPN terminator at my office is not yet IPv6 connected (but will be).
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Graeme Allen <gallen at mytelecom.com.au>
> Sender: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:08:13 
> To: Joshua D'Alton<joshua at railgun.com.au>
> Reply-To: gallen at mytelecom.com.au
> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net<ausnog at ausnog.net>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
> 
> It's Saturday, and I'm a bit bored, apologies in advance for any offense
> caused.....
> 
> [IPv6 - Scene #1]
> 
> [Hipster #1] - Hey did you notice that the InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace
> thingy hasn't worked properly since Sunday night? Hey, Nathanyall, you
> know about computers, didn't you queue for 3 days for your new phone? 
> 
> [Hipster#2] Yeah, but have an iPhone and Mac, everything works perfectly
> for me, you should get a mac. Why is my Frappe taking so long?
> 
> [Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't you use the same ISP as me?
> 
> [Hipster #1] IS what now? I've got a notebook, HP I think.
> 
> [Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't worry. Didn't you get an email
> from HyperMegaNet about them turning on IPv6 last week, if you wanted to
> opt-out there was a link to a form where you could say no.
> 
> [Hipster #1] Do you mean Facebook? Right, so someone broke my internet
> and now I have to call them to fix it, what's their number?
> 
> [ISP Help desk operator] - Hello Jaamie, how can I help you?
> 
> [Hipster #1] - My InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace is broken, apparently you
> turned on i6 on Sunday and now nothing works, I want it put back the way
> it was, now.
> 
> [ISP Help desk operator] - We did send you an IPv6 opt-out form. If you
> just have a minute I am sure we can get your PC working properly again.
> 
> [Hipster #1] - I don't have a minute, I want it put back the way it
> was ,now, it's not my problem, I want to speak to a manager. I saw an ad
> on a tram for internet that was half the price I pay you.
> 
> [ISP Help desk operator] - I understand sir, I'll put it back now, it
> will just take a moment, there, done, sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> [Hipster #1] Thankyou, please don't do that again.
> 
> [ISP Manager] - Why did we turn on IPv6 again?
> 
> [Network Manager] - We have to migrate people to IPv6 because.........
> 
> [approx 8 minutes pass]
> 
> [ISP Manager] - Are we charging more for it?
> 
> [Network Manager] - No
> 
> [ISP Manager] - Can people do more with it?
> 
> [Network Manager] - No
> 
> [ISP Manager] - Does it lower our costs?
> 
> [Network Manager] - No, it sort of increases them in the short term
> 
> [ISP Manager] - How many extra calls have we had per day since?
> 
> [Network Manager] - About a 300% increase
> 
> [ISP Help Desk Manager] - You're fired.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IP what now? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2013-03-02 at 18:20 +1100, Joshua D'Alton wrote:
>> Cheers Bevan
>> 
>> 
>> The solution to 1. is to charge full economic prices for things, that
>> will hit people where their hearts are; their wallets. You could even
>> do it like the fee added on when you get your car serviced "oil
>> disposal".. instead it would be "IPv4 provisioning" or something like
>> that.
>> 
>> 
>> If all the drug dealers in "The Wire" could get together and sort out
>> there minor problems for a massive gain in cooperative bargaining,
>> then while it is a TV show, perhaps we can aspire to do the same
>> thing.
>> 
>> 
>> I'm not proposing serversaustralia and ozservers and nextDC be the
>> only ones to stick their necks out, but I don't think it would be seen
>> as conspiracy or market manipulation by the government were they to
>> get together and work out a plan that would see them all through the
>> next 5 years of transition. The reverse way of dealing it would be to
>> discount services that operate on IPv6-only, that might have less of
>> an impact on the customer.
>> 
>> 
>> Of course, that would actually require the cost of IPv4 going up, not
>> down like it has in this case. Still, if companies were made to pay
>> 10x what they are now for ip space, they might consider the current
>> pain vs future pain equation to start weighing heavily in the now.
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Bevan Slattery
>> <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
>>        Thanks for the reply Joshua.  The issues in my mind are:
>> 
>> 
>>        1.  Lack of education and awareness with end-users
>>        2.  Lack of a coherent and seamless migration strategy
>>        (including tools) not just for industry/network operators but
>>        also for end-users
>>        3.  Poor management of limited resources (IP addresses)
>> 
>> 
>>        How can we expect users to plan for migration if the people
>>        who operate the networks themselves can't even articulate
>>        first what the problem is and secondly how to solve it?
>> 
>> 
>>        So unless us as an industry come up with a solution 2) and
>>        communicate 1) then all we have to rely on is efficient
>>        resource management 3).
>> 
>> 
>>        [b]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>        From: Joshua D'Alton <joshua at railgun.com.au>
>>        Date: Saturday, 2 March 2013 3:52 PM
>>        To: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
>>        Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
>>        Resent-From: Bevan Slattery <bevan.slattery at nextdc.com>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>        The unsaid thing here seems to be the cost, to the company, to
>>        the customers, to whoever. 
>> 
>> 
>>        I'd suggest that businesses that operate on low margins are
>>        always going to feel more threatened when their business model
>>        comes under attack, but that is their cross to bear not the
>>        internet communities'.
>> 
>> 
>>        When you have providers selling virtual servers for $5/month,
>>        dedicated IP/hosting for $3/month, dedicated servers for
>>        $99/month and so on, you start to have complaints from people
>>        who can't afford to role out IPv6, or are worried about losing
>>        their customer base if they try pass on some of the costs to
>>        them. Sure there are lots of companies complaining who do
>>        operate on high margins, and people on low margins not
>>        complaining, but they aren't the ones with a fundamental
>>        business model problem.
>> 
>> 
>>        It seems people have made their beds, and as painful as it is,
>>        they are going to have to sleep in them. The people still
>>        playing pass the parcel with this ticking time bomb when it
>>        goes off are going to take a far larger hit in 5 years than if
>>        they bite the bullet now and get IPv6 ready. And conversely,
>>        they are paying a much higher price now than they would have
>>        even 5 years ago.
>> 
>> 
>>        People complain about software not working properly with IPv6,
>>        well it might have been time to kick up a fuss about that 10
>>        years ago, not in 5 years time and still expect something to
>>        be done when the horse has well and truly bolted. We've had
>>        client-side IPv6 support for going on 10 years now, and while
>>        it isn't anywhere near perfect and there is still a lot to be
>>        done... well its all been said already.
>> 
>>        On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Bevan Slattery
>>        <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
>>                 Yes we have been running out for the last 10 years -
>>                I get it.  But here's the news flash - we are going to
>>                keep running out for at least the next 5, because the
>>                network operator doesn't always determine the
>>                timetable for migration of course and unless they
>>                don't care about having customers.
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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