[AusNOG] IPv4
Jared Hirst
jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au
Sat Mar 2 20:13:36 EST 2013
I also know they don't but Mark said they have been deploying it for
years to bigpond customers?!?!
Regards,
Jared Hirst
Servers Australia Pty Ltd
Phone: 1300 788 862
Direct: (02) 4307 4205
E-mail: jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au
On 02/03/2013, at 8:08 PM, ZoneNetworks - Joel <joel at zonenetworks.com.au> wrote:
> Wish Optus or Telstra had ipv6, they didn't on world ipv6 day and still no major push to have it ( happy to be corrected on this)
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 02/03/2013, at 7:18 PM, "Alastair Johnson" <aj at sneep.net> wrote:
>
>> Seems like an over-dramatization. Free.fr, Comcast, AT&T have had IPv6 available on their networks for some time without this sort of issue.
>>
>> This is precisely what World IPv6 Day and World IPv6 Launch were about -- to combat this kind of thinking and prove that such a scenario is unlikely or extremely rare.
>>
>> I have native IPv6 at home, on by default from my ISP (Comcast) and it just works. Oh, and 16% of my traffic goes over IPv6 every day. This number is so low only because the VPN terminator at my office is not yet IPv6 connected (but will be).
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Graeme Allen <gallen at mytelecom.com.au>
>> Sender: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
>> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:08:13
>> To: Joshua D'Alton<joshua at railgun.com.au>
>> Reply-To: gallen at mytelecom.com.au
>> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net<ausnog at ausnog.net>
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
>>
>> It's Saturday, and I'm a bit bored, apologies in advance for any offense
>> caused.....
>>
>> [IPv6 - Scene #1]
>>
>> [Hipster #1] - Hey did you notice that the InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace
>> thingy hasn't worked properly since Sunday night? Hey, Nathanyall, you
>> know about computers, didn't you queue for 3 days for your new phone?
>>
>> [Hipster#2] Yeah, but have an iPhone and Mac, everything works perfectly
>> for me, you should get a mac. Why is my Frappe taking so long?
>>
>> [Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't you use the same ISP as me?
>>
>> [Hipster #1] IS what now? I've got a notebook, HP I think.
>>
>> [Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't worry. Didn't you get an email
>> from HyperMegaNet about them turning on IPv6 last week, if you wanted to
>> opt-out there was a link to a form where you could say no.
>>
>> [Hipster #1] Do you mean Facebook? Right, so someone broke my internet
>> and now I have to call them to fix it, what's their number?
>>
>> [ISP Help desk operator] - Hello Jaamie, how can I help you?
>>
>> [Hipster #1] - My InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace is broken, apparently you
>> turned on i6 on Sunday and now nothing works, I want it put back the way
>> it was, now.
>>
>> [ISP Help desk operator] - We did send you an IPv6 opt-out form. If you
>> just have a minute I am sure we can get your PC working properly again.
>>
>> [Hipster #1] - I don't have a minute, I want it put back the way it
>> was ,now, it's not my problem, I want to speak to a manager. I saw an ad
>> on a tram for internet that was half the price I pay you.
>>
>> [ISP Help desk operator] - I understand sir, I'll put it back now, it
>> will just take a moment, there, done, sorry for the inconvenience.
>>
>> [Hipster #1] Thankyou, please don't do that again.
>>
>> [ISP Manager] - Why did we turn on IPv6 again?
>>
>> [Network Manager] - We have to migrate people to IPv6 because.........
>>
>> [approx 8 minutes pass]
>>
>> [ISP Manager] - Are we charging more for it?
>>
>> [Network Manager] - No
>>
>> [ISP Manager] - Can people do more with it?
>>
>> [Network Manager] - No
>>
>> [ISP Manager] - Does it lower our costs?
>>
>> [Network Manager] - No, it sort of increases them in the short term
>>
>> [ISP Manager] - How many extra calls have we had per day since?
>>
>> [Network Manager] - About a 300% increase
>>
>> [ISP Help Desk Manager] - You're fired.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> IP what now?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 2013-03-02 at 18:20 +1100, Joshua D'Alton wrote:
>>> Cheers Bevan
>>>
>>>
>>> The solution to 1. is to charge full economic prices for things, that
>>> will hit people where their hearts are; their wallets. You could even
>>> do it like the fee added on when you get your car serviced "oil
>>> disposal".. instead it would be "IPv4 provisioning" or something like
>>> that.
>>>
>>>
>>> If all the drug dealers in "The Wire" could get together and sort out
>>> there minor problems for a massive gain in cooperative bargaining,
>>> then while it is a TV show, perhaps we can aspire to do the same
>>> thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not proposing serversaustralia and ozservers and nextDC be the
>>> only ones to stick their necks out, but I don't think it would be seen
>>> as conspiracy or market manipulation by the government were they to
>>> get together and work out a plan that would see them all through the
>>> next 5 years of transition. The reverse way of dealing it would be to
>>> discount services that operate on IPv6-only, that might have less of
>>> an impact on the customer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, that would actually require the cost of IPv4 going up, not
>>> down like it has in this case. Still, if companies were made to pay
>>> 10x what they are now for ip space, they might consider the current
>>> pain vs future pain equation to start weighing heavily in the now.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Bevan Slattery
>>> <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the reply Joshua. The issues in my mind are:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Lack of education and awareness with end-users
>>> 2. Lack of a coherent and seamless migration strategy
>>> (including tools) not just for industry/network operators but
>>> also for end-users
>>> 3. Poor management of limited resources (IP addresses)
>>>
>>>
>>> How can we expect users to plan for migration if the people
>>> who operate the networks themselves can't even articulate
>>> first what the problem is and secondly how to solve it?
>>>
>>>
>>> So unless us as an industry come up with a solution 2) and
>>> communicate 1) then all we have to rely on is efficient
>>> resource management 3).
>>>
>>>
>>> [b]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Joshua D'Alton <joshua at railgun.com.au>
>>> Date: Saturday, 2 March 2013 3:52 PM
>>> To: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
>>> Resent-From: Bevan Slattery <bevan.slattery at nextdc.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The unsaid thing here seems to be the cost, to the company, to
>>> the customers, to whoever.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd suggest that businesses that operate on low margins are
>>> always going to feel more threatened when their business model
>>> comes under attack, but that is their cross to bear not the
>>> internet communities'.
>>>
>>>
>>> When you have providers selling virtual servers for $5/month,
>>> dedicated IP/hosting for $3/month, dedicated servers for
>>> $99/month and so on, you start to have complaints from people
>>> who can't afford to role out IPv6, or are worried about losing
>>> their customer base if they try pass on some of the costs to
>>> them. Sure there are lots of companies complaining who do
>>> operate on high margins, and people on low margins not
>>> complaining, but they aren't the ones with a fundamental
>>> business model problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems people have made their beds, and as painful as it is,
>>> they are going to have to sleep in them. The people still
>>> playing pass the parcel with this ticking time bomb when it
>>> goes off are going to take a far larger hit in 5 years than if
>>> they bite the bullet now and get IPv6 ready. And conversely,
>>> they are paying a much higher price now than they would have
>>> even 5 years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>> People complain about software not working properly with IPv6,
>>> well it might have been time to kick up a fuss about that 10
>>> years ago, not in 5 years time and still expect something to
>>> be done when the horse has well and truly bolted. We've had
>>> client-side IPv6 support for going on 10 years now, and while
>>> it isn't anywhere near perfect and there is still a lot to be
>>> done... well its all been said already.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Bevan Slattery
>>> <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
>>> Yes we have been running out for the last 10 years -
>>> I get it. But here's the news flash - we are going to
>>> keep running out for at least the next 5, because the
>>> network operator doesn't always determine the
>>> timetable for migration of course and unless they
>>> don't care about having customers.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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