[AusNOG] IPv4
Alastair Johnson
aj at sneep.net
Sat Mar 2 19:31:14 EST 2013
Sounds like a problem for the tunnel provider and the end-user trying to circumvent geo-restrictions.
In fact I'd say IPv6 did exactly what it was supposed to do in this case -- and I'd imagine the geo-restricting content provider would be inclined to agree.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graeme Allen <gallen at mytelecom.com.au>
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:26:37
To: <aj at sneep.net>
Reply-To: gallen at mytelecom.com.au
Cc: Joshua D'Alton<joshua at railgun.com.au>; ausnog at ausnog.net<ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
Yes, I have IPv6 at home to, and it works fine, but here is a real first
hand story.....
- Battlestar Galactica Blood and Chrome released on Machinima Prime
(yeah, I'm a nerd)
- The studio has only allowed viewing in the USA
- I sign up for a US based VPN, get the tunnel up and working, happy
days
- Site still says video can't be watched from my location
- Scratch head for 20+ mins
- Finally realise the source is IPv6 and not going through the tunnel
- Check with tunnel provider, no IPv6 support
- Turn off IPv6 and Cylons a plenty
It's the corner cases that get you, and suck held desk resources.....
On Sat, 2013-03-02 at 08:18 +0000, Alastair Johnson wrote:
> Seems like an over-dramatization. Free.fr, Comcast, AT&T have had IPv6 available on their networks for some time without this sort of issue.
>
> This is precisely what World IPv6 Day and World IPv6 Launch were about -- to combat this kind of thinking and prove that such a scenario is unlikely or extremely rare.
>
> I have native IPv6 at home, on by default from my ISP (Comcast) and it just works. Oh, and 16% of my traffic goes over IPv6 every day. This number is so low only because the VPN terminator at my office is not yet IPv6 connected (but will be).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Graeme Allen <gallen at mytelecom.com.au>
> Sender: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:08:13
> To: Joshua D'Alton<joshua at railgun.com.au>
> Reply-To: gallen at mytelecom.com.au
> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net<ausnog at ausnog.net>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
>
> It's Saturday, and I'm a bit bored, apologies in advance for any offense
> caused.....
>
> [IPv6 - Scene #1]
>
> [Hipster #1] - Hey did you notice that the InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace
> thingy hasn't worked properly since Sunday night? Hey, Nathanyall, you
> know about computers, didn't you queue for 3 days for your new phone?
>
> [Hipster#2] Yeah, but have an iPhone and Mac, everything works perfectly
> for me, you should get a mac. Why is my Frappe taking so long?
>
> [Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't you use the same ISP as me?
>
> [Hipster #1] IS what now? I've got a notebook, HP I think.
>
> [Slightly outcast acquaintance #1] Don't worry. Didn't you get an email
> from HyperMegaNet about them turning on IPv6 last week, if you wanted to
> opt-out there was a link to a form where you could say no.
>
> [Hipster #1] Do you mean Facebook? Right, so someone broke my internet
> and now I have to call them to fix it, what's their number?
>
> [ISP Help desk operator] - Hello Jaamie, how can I help you?
>
> [Hipster #1] - My InstaFaceGramGrinderSpace is broken, apparently you
> turned on i6 on Sunday and now nothing works, I want it put back the way
> it was, now.
>
> [ISP Help desk operator] - We did send you an IPv6 opt-out form. If you
> just have a minute I am sure we can get your PC working properly again.
>
> [Hipster #1] - I don't have a minute, I want it put back the way it
> was ,now, it's not my problem, I want to speak to a manager. I saw an ad
> on a tram for internet that was half the price I pay you.
>
> [ISP Help desk operator] - I understand sir, I'll put it back now, it
> will just take a moment, there, done, sorry for the inconvenience.
>
> [Hipster #1] Thankyou, please don't do that again.
>
> [ISP Manager] - Why did we turn on IPv6 again?
>
> [Network Manager] - We have to migrate people to IPv6 because.........
>
> [approx 8 minutes pass]
>
> [ISP Manager] - Are we charging more for it?
>
> [Network Manager] - No
>
> [ISP Manager] - Can people do more with it?
>
> [Network Manager] - No
>
> [ISP Manager] - Does it lower our costs?
>
> [Network Manager] - No, it sort of increases them in the short term
>
> [ISP Manager] - How many extra calls have we had per day since?
>
> [Network Manager] - About a 300% increase
>
> [ISP Help Desk Manager] - You're fired.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> IP what now?
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2013-03-02 at 18:20 +1100, Joshua D'Alton wrote:
> > Cheers Bevan
> >
> >
> > The solution to 1. is to charge full economic prices for things, that
> > will hit people where their hearts are; their wallets. You could even
> > do it like the fee added on when you get your car serviced "oil
> > disposal".. instead it would be "IPv4 provisioning" or something like
> > that.
> >
> >
> > If all the drug dealers in "The Wire" could get together and sort out
> > there minor problems for a massive gain in cooperative bargaining,
> > then while it is a TV show, perhaps we can aspire to do the same
> > thing.
> >
> >
> > I'm not proposing serversaustralia and ozservers and nextDC be the
> > only ones to stick their necks out, but I don't think it would be seen
> > as conspiracy or market manipulation by the government were they to
> > get together and work out a plan that would see them all through the
> > next 5 years of transition. The reverse way of dealing it would be to
> > discount services that operate on IPv6-only, that might have less of
> > an impact on the customer.
> >
> >
> > Of course, that would actually require the cost of IPv4 going up, not
> > down like it has in this case. Still, if companies were made to pay
> > 10x what they are now for ip space, they might consider the current
> > pain vs future pain equation to start weighing heavily in the now.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Bevan Slattery
> > <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for the reply Joshua. The issues in my mind are:
> >
> >
> > 1. Lack of education and awareness with end-users
> > 2. Lack of a coherent and seamless migration strategy
> > (including tools) not just for industry/network operators but
> > also for end-users
> > 3. Poor management of limited resources (IP addresses)
> >
> >
> > How can we expect users to plan for migration if the people
> > who operate the networks themselves can't even articulate
> > first what the problem is and secondly how to solve it?
> >
> >
> > So unless us as an industry come up with a solution 2) and
> > communicate 1) then all we have to rely on is efficient
> > resource management 3).
> >
> >
> > [b]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Joshua D'Alton <joshua at railgun.com.au>
> > Date: Saturday, 2 March 2013 3:52 PM
> > To: "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
> > Resent-From: Bevan Slattery <bevan.slattery at nextdc.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > The unsaid thing here seems to be the cost, to the company, to
> > the customers, to whoever.
> >
> >
> > I'd suggest that businesses that operate on low margins are
> > always going to feel more threatened when their business model
> > comes under attack, but that is their cross to bear not the
> > internet communities'.
> >
> >
> > When you have providers selling virtual servers for $5/month,
> > dedicated IP/hosting for $3/month, dedicated servers for
> > $99/month and so on, you start to have complaints from people
> > who can't afford to role out IPv6, or are worried about losing
> > their customer base if they try pass on some of the costs to
> > them. Sure there are lots of companies complaining who do
> > operate on high margins, and people on low margins not
> > complaining, but they aren't the ones with a fundamental
> > business model problem.
> >
> >
> > It seems people have made their beds, and as painful as it is,
> > they are going to have to sleep in them. The people still
> > playing pass the parcel with this ticking time bomb when it
> > goes off are going to take a far larger hit in 5 years than if
> > they bite the bullet now and get IPv6 ready. And conversely,
> > they are paying a much higher price now than they would have
> > even 5 years ago.
> >
> >
> > People complain about software not working properly with IPv6,
> > well it might have been time to kick up a fuss about that 10
> > years ago, not in 5 years time and still expect something to
> > be done when the horse has well and truly bolted. We've had
> > client-side IPv6 support for going on 10 years now, and while
> > it isn't anywhere near perfect and there is still a lot to be
> > done... well its all been said already.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Bevan Slattery
> > <Bevan.Slattery at nextdc.com> wrote:
> > Yes we have been running out for the last 10 years -
> > I get it. But here's the news flash - we are going to
> > keep running out for at least the next 5, because the
> > network operator doesn't always determine the
> > timetable for migration of course and unless they
> > don't care about having customers.
> >
> >
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