[AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?

Sun Aug 4 16:27:45 EST 2013

Absolutely agree. The increase in OPEX is something that can be easily kept low by automating and standardising your technical peerings. Also no point in signing any agreement in 99% of cases. That is usually the biggest upfront cost and most of the time no reason besides "lawyers run my company" can be given.

On 8/4/13 4:16 PM, "Gaurab Raj Upadhaya" <gaurab at lahai.com<mailto:gaurab at lahai.com>> wrote:

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something that has always wondered me in the AU/NZ peering scenario is
the lack of Internest in bilateral sessions. Route-servers are good,
but direct sessions are always preferred. adds to opex, but also makes
your routing table richer and less dependent on the Route-server.

- -gaurab

On 8/4/13 7:11 AM, Wolfgang Nagele wrote:
Hi Mark,
The only difference that I can agree to is the distance between
major cities. All the rest is the same in every market around the
world. In my mind the vast distances between major cities should
make the case for peering even stronger. Also as far as distance
and availability of IXes goes Australia is not that much different
from the US. Most peering in the US is carried out at the West and
East coast - same as in Australia.
I did receive a reply off-list that pointed out what I believe may
be the real reason for the difference in peering culture. In
Australia the Internet did not start with small ISPs all over the
place - it started with the Incumbent. That makes for a very
different dynamic around market control.
Cheers, Wolfgang
On 8/4/13 9:40 AM, "Mark ZZZ Smith" <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au<mailto:markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>
<mailto:markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
I think it could be a symptom of a few differences between
Australia and other regions.
Australia has a small number of large cities, spread apart by 100s
of Kms. As a consequence, there are only a small number of IXes in
each city, and the network effect (the more something is used, the
more valuable it becomes), keeps that number of IXes small. If
you're going to connect to an interstate IX, you need to be large
enough to afford that sort of infrastructure (e.g, be able to
afford to pay for a reasonable bandwidth link that goes 100s of
Kms), and you're going to go to the most popular IX(es) to gain the
best value from peering.
Once you connect to an IX, multilateral peering with a couple of
the IX's route servers provides more value than bilaterally peering
in most cases, because you avoid the administrative overhead of
all those bilateral peering setups.
To be worth doing, bilateral peering would need to either provide
a peering with somebody who won't multilateral peer at an IX, or
peering that provides more useful value than what the existing
multilateral peering provides.
Regards, Mark.
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*From:* Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com.au<mailto:shaun at rackcentral.com.au>
<mailto:shaun at rackcentral.com.au>> *To:* Tom Paseka
<tom at cloudflare.com<mailto:tom at cloudflare.com> <mailto:tom at cloudflare.com>>; Wolfgang Nagele
<wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>
<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>> *Cc:*
"Ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net> <mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>" <Ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>
<mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>> *Sent:* Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:16 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?
Hi Guys,
I just wanted to chime in here ? We are peering with Wolfgang and
set it up last week. We are all for peering .. and if anyone wants
to reach out and peer with us we have gear/pop in the following
locations.
530 Collins St (MDF / & MDC Level 15 ) 525 Collins St (MDF Rialto
Towers) NextDC M1 Primus DC Melbourne Vocus Doody St Sydney
Regards Shaun McGuane
*From:*AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
Of *Tom Paseka *Sent:* Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:01 AM *To:* Wolfgang
Nagele *Cc:* Ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net> <mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>
*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?
Wolfgang,
Australia isn't opposed to peering any more or less so than Europe.
Difference is many operators wont set up direct sessions over the
fabric, instead relying on peering with the Route Server(s) to
exchange routes.
Cheers, Tom
On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Nagele
<wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>
<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>> wrote:
Hi,
Coming from Europe I have to say that I am still surprised about
the reluctance in Australia to peer with each other. Leaving the
large players and their various (mainly) political motives aside,
why the reluctance among the small providers here?
To put it into perspective, we've just recently rolled out a
substantial global Anycast deployment and while we are struggling
to get decent numbers of peers at various IXes here we've
established many in both Europe and the US.
Anybody can shed some light on this issue for me?
And for those that actually just would like to peer - our details
are here: http://as58620.peeringdb.com
<http://as58620.peeringdb.com/>
Regards,
-- Wolfgang Nagele IT Manager AusRegistry Pty Ltd Level 8, 10
Queens Road Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3004 Phone +61 3 9866
3710 Email: wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>
<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au> Web:
www.ausregistry.com.au <http://www.ausregistry.com.au/>
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- --

http://www.gaurab.org.np/

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