<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 15px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>Absolutely agree. The increase in OPEX is something that can be easily kept low by automating and standardising your technical peerings. Also no point in signing any agreement in 99% of cases. That is usually the biggest upfront cost and most of the time
no reason besides "lawyers run my company" can be given.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div>On 8/4/13 4:16 PM, "Gaurab Raj Upadhaya" <<a href="mailto:gaurab@lahai.com">gaurab@lahai.com</a>> wrote:</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div>
<div>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----</div>
<div>Hash: SHA1</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>something that has always wondered me in the AU/NZ peering scenario is</div>
<div>the lack of Internest in bilateral sessions. Route-servers are good,</div>
<div>but direct sessions are always preferred. adds to opex, but also makes</div>
<div>your routing table richer and less dependent on the Route-server.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- -gaurab</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 8/4/13 7:11 AM, Wolfgang Nagele wrote:</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>Hi Mark,</div>
<div></div>
<div>The only difference that I can agree to is the distance between</div>
<div>major cities. All the rest is the same in every market around the</div>
<div>world. In my mind the vast distances between major cities should</div>
<div>make the case for peering even stronger. Also as far as distance</div>
<div>and availability of IXes goes Australia is not that much different</div>
<div>from the US. Most peering in the US is carried out at the West and</div>
<div>East coast - same as in Australia.</div>
<div></div>
<div>I did receive a reply off-list that pointed out what I believe may</div>
<div>be the real reason for the difference in peering culture. In</div>
<div>Australia the Internet did not start with small ISPs all over the</div>
<div>place - it started with the Incumbent. That makes for a very</div>
<div>different dynamic around market control.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Cheers, Wolfgang</div>
<div></div>
<div>On 8/4/13 9:40 AM, "Mark ZZZ Smith" <<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>
</div>
<div><<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>">mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au></a>> wrote:</div>
<div></div>
<div>I think it could be a symptom of a few differences between</div>
<div>Australia and other regions.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Australia has a small number of large cities, spread apart by 100s </div>
<div>of Kms. As a consequence, there are only a small number of IXes in </div>
<div>each city, and the network effect (the more something is used, the </div>
<div>more valuable it becomes), keeps that number of IXes small. If </div>
<div>you're going to connect to an interstate IX, you need to be large </div>
<div>enough to afford that sort of infrastructure (e.g, be able to</div>
<div>afford to pay for a reasonable bandwidth link that goes 100s of</div>
<div>Kms), and you're going to go to the most popular IX(es) to gain the</div>
<div>best value from peering.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Once you connect to an IX, multilateral peering with a couple of</div>
<div>the IX's route servers provides more value than bilaterally peering</div>
<div>in most cases, because you avoid the administrative overhead of</div>
<div>all those bilateral peering setups.</div>
<div></div>
<div>To be worth doing, bilateral peering would need to either provide</div>
<div>a peering with somebody who won't multilateral peer at an IX, or </div>
<div>peering that provides more useful value than what the existing </div>
<div>multilateral peering provides.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div></div>
</blockquote>
<div>*From:* Shaun McGuane <<a href="mailto:shaun@rackcentral.com.au">shaun@rackcentral.com.au</a></div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div><<a href="mailto:shaun@rackcentral.com.au>">mailto:shaun@rackcentral.com.au></a>> *To:* Tom Paseka</div>
<div><<a href="mailto:tom@cloudflare.com">tom@cloudflare.com</a> <<a href="mailto:tom@cloudflare.com>">mailto:tom@cloudflare.com></a>>; Wolfgang Nagele
</div>
<div><<a href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au">wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au</a>
</div>
<div><<a href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au>">mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au></a>> *Cc:*</div>
<div>"<a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net">Ausnog@ausnog.net</a> <<a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net>">mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net></a>" <<a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net">Ausnog@ausnog.net</a></div>
<div><<a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net>">mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net></a>> *Sent:* Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:16 AM
</div>
<div>*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?</div>
<div></div>
<div>Hi Guys,</div>
<div></div>
<div>I just wanted to chime in here ? We are peering with Wolfgang and</div>
<div>set it up last week. We are all for peering .. and if anyone wants</div>
<div>to reach out and peer with us we have gear/pop in the following</div>
<div>locations.</div>
<div></div>
<div>530 Collins St (MDF / & MDC Level 15 ) 525 Collins St (MDF Rialto</div>
<div>Towers) NextDC M1 Primus DC Melbourne Vocus Doody St Sydney</div>
<div></div>
<div>Regards Shaun McGuane</div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div>*From:*AusNOG [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] *On Behalf</div>
<div>Of *Tom Paseka *Sent:* Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:01 AM *To:* Wolfgang</div>
<div>Nagele *Cc:* <a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net">Ausnog@ausnog.net</a> <<a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net">mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net</a>>
</div>
<div>*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?</div>
<div></div>
<div>Wolfgang,</div>
<div></div>
<div>Australia isn't opposed to peering any more or less so than Europe.</div>
<div>Difference is many operators wont set up direct sessions over the</div>
<div>fabric, instead relying on peering with the Route Server(s) to</div>
<div>exchange routes.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Cheers, Tom</div>
<div></div>
<div>On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Nagele </div>
<div><<a href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au">wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au</a>
</div>
<div><<a href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au>">mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au></a>> wrote:</div>
<div></div>
<div>Hi,</div>
<div></div>
<div>Coming from Europe I have to say that I am still surprised about</div>
<div>the reluctance in Australia to peer with each other. Leaving the</div>
<div>large players and their various (mainly) political motives aside,</div>
<div>why the reluctance among the small providers here?</div>
<div></div>
<div>To put it into perspective, we've just recently rolled out a </div>
<div>substantial global Anycast deployment and while we are struggling</div>
<div>to get decent numbers of peers at various IXes here we've</div>
<div>established many in both Europe and the US.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Anybody can shed some light on this issue for me?</div>
<div></div>
<div>And for those that actually just would like to peer - our details</div>
<div>are here: <a href="http://as58620.peeringdb.com">http://as58620.peeringdb.com</a>
</div>
<div><<a href="http://as58620.peeringdb.com/">http://as58620.peeringdb.com/</a>></div>
<div></div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div></div>
<div>-- Wolfgang Nagele IT Manager AusRegistry Pty Ltd Level 8, 10</div>
<div>Queens Road Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3004 Phone +61 3 9866</div>
<div>3710 Email: <a href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au">wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au</a>
</div>
<div><<a href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au">mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au</a>> Web:</div>
<div>www.ausregistry.com.au <<a href="http://www.ausregistry.com.au/">http://www.ausregistry.com.au/</a>></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div>The information contained in this communication is intended for the</div>
<div>named recipients only. It is subject to copyright and may contain</div>
<div>legally privileged and confidential information and if you are not</div>
<div>an intended recipient you must not use, copy, distribute or take</div>
<div>any action in reliance on it. If you have received this</div>
<div>communication in error, please delete all copies from your system</div>
<div>and notify us immediately.</div>
<div></div>
<div>_______________________________________________ AusNOG mailing</div>
<div>list <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a> <<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>>
</div>
<div><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div>Message protected by RackCentral: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and</div>
<div>content filtering. <a href="http://www.rackcentral.com.au">http://www.rackcentral.com.au</a></div>
<div></div>
<div>_______________________________________________ AusNOG mailing</div>
<div>list <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a> <<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>>
</div>
<div><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div>_______________________________________________ AusNOG mailing</div>
<div>list <a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a> </div>
<div><a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a></div>
<div></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- -- </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.gaurab.org.np/">http://www.gaurab.org.np/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----</div>
<div>Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin)</div>
<div>Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - <a href="http://www.enigmail.net/">http://www.enigmail.net/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>iEYEARECAAYFAlH98aMACgkQSo7fU26F3X2mEACgvBNKoLUwldZC5tJwGYuBrqkD</div>
<div>3PAAoPebFL/YVE2YgtkuoNKlx80pBR7j</div>
<div>=17mS</div>
<div>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>