[AusNOG] Vocus vs. Pipe - Was: Vocus peering traffic missingfrom PIPE-IX?

[Matthew Moyle-Croft]

The one major thing the "Gang of Four" arrangement has given Australia is
functioning domestic interconnect.  ie. the large networks all interconnect
within Australia and do so in a way that means latency is sane. Am dealing
with countries in other regions who actively use high latency (ie. sending
your connectivity via another continent) as a way of trying to force you to
buy THEIR transit product at high prices.

MMC




On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>wrote:

> The assertion was peering is free / gratis / no money. That's clearly
> incorrect, and I don't think you need much more than a simplification to
> realise it.
>
> It's worth remembering that the actual definition of the word "peer" is
>
> "a person who is the same age or has the same social position or the same
> abilities as other people in a group"
>
> i.e. an *equal* based on a set of attributes.
>
> Using Verizon as an example, Verizon's peering T&Cs list who they consider
> to be somebody they'd be willing to directly peer with, with lower
> requirements in ASPAC verses the rest of the world. However, I doubt even
> Telstra would qualify, so it's likely that Verizon also would like to get
> out of the so-called Gang of Four arrangement, because they're being forced
> to peer with non-equals. Telstra would probably have the same view on Optus
> and AAPT, and Optus on AAPT. Considering that AAPT is no where near as big
> as the other 3 they'd be gaining the most and providing the least.
>
> Multilateral peering doesn't require the "peers" to be apparent equals,
> however it is aggregating together the value the small "peers" would
> provide such that there is value to the larger "peers" to connect.
> Everybody who connects gains more from connecting than it costs them. Those
> who choose not to connect, in their judgement, don't gain more from it than
> it would cost them, despite the many values of peering that Sam Silvester
> pointed out, other than just "cheaper than transit".
>
> Government forced peering means that some parties can get far more value
> out of the arrangement than others - it isn't mutually beneficial to
> everybody any more, in their individual perception. If forced peering
> became the norm, could I force my residential ISP to peer with my home
> network, "for free"? If big networks must peer with smaller networks, then
> my home network qualifies as a small one.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bevan Slattery <bevan at slattery.net.au>
> > To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>; Luke Iggleden <
> luke+ausnog at sisgroup.com.au>
> > Cc: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 2:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus vs. Pipe - Was: Vocus peering traffic
> missingfrom PIPE-IX?
> >
> > And those that want to peer don't?
> >
> > TPG, iiNet and Nextgen are larger than AAPT and Verizon.  In fact TPG and
> > iiNet are larger than Optus in the ADSL market.
> >
> > Oversimplification me thinks...
> >
> > [b]
> >
> >>>
> >>
> >> So the rack space, cable infrastructure, routers, electricity, 24x7 NOC
> >> etc. that you use to connect to them, *if* you qualify as a peer, is all
> >> free?
> >>
> >> Think about it. A company spends millions of dollars on equipment and
> >> installs fibre across Australia, and is then going to let everybody use
> >> it for gratis? That's a business plan to very rapidly go out of
> > business.
> >> I suspect the "free peering" myth has come from the days when
> > residential
> >> ADSL offered "free Pipe". The only reason it was "free"
> > to customers was
> >> that the ISP chose not to bill the customers for it.
> >
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