The one major thing the "Gang of Four" arrangement has given Australia is functioning domestic interconnect. ie. the large networks all interconnect within Australia and do so in a way that means latency is sane. Am dealing with countries in other regions who actively use high latency (ie. sending your connectivity via another continent) as a way of trying to force you to buy THEIR transit product at high prices.<div>
<br></div><div>MMC<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The assertion was peering is free / gratis / no money. That's clearly incorrect, and I don't think you need much more than a simplification to realise it.<br>
<br>
It's worth remembering that the actual definition of the word "peer" is<br>
<br>
"a person who is the same age or has the same social position or the same abilities as other people in a group" <br>
<br>
i.e. an *equal* based on a set of attributes.<br>
<br>
Using Verizon as an example, Verizon's peering T&Cs list who they consider to be somebody they'd be willing to directly peer with, with lower requirements in ASPAC verses the rest of the world. However, I doubt even Telstra would qualify, so it's likely that Verizon also would like to get out of the so-called Gang of Four arrangement, because they're being forced to peer with non-equals. Telstra would probably have the same view on Optus and AAPT, and Optus on AAPT. Considering that AAPT is no where near as big as the other 3 they'd be gaining the most and providing the least.<br>
<br>
Multilateral peering doesn't require the "peers" to be apparent equals, however it is aggregating together the value the small "peers" would provide such that there is value to the larger "peers" to connect. Everybody who connects gains more from connecting than it costs them. Those who choose not to connect, in their judgement, don't gain more from it than it would cost them, despite the many values of peering that Sam Silvester pointed out, other than just "cheaper than transit".<br>
<br>
Government forced peering means that some parties can get far more value out of the arrangement than others - it isn't mutually beneficial to everybody any more, in their individual perception. If forced peering became the norm, could I force my residential ISP to peer with my home network, "for free"? If big networks must peer with smaller networks, then my home network qualifies as a small one.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: Bevan Slattery <<a href="mailto:bevan@slattery.net.au">bevan@slattery.net.au</a>><br>
> To: Mark Smith <<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>>; Luke Iggleden <<a href="mailto:luke%2Bausnog@sisgroup.com.au">luke+ausnog@sisgroup.com.au</a>><br>
> Cc: "<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br>
</div><div class="im">> Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 2:12 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Vocus vs. Pipe - Was: Vocus peering traffic missingfrom PIPE-IX?<br>
><br>
</div>> And those that want to peer don't?<br>
><br>
> TPG, iiNet and Nextgen are larger than AAPT and Verizon. In fact TPG and<br>
> iiNet are larger than Optus in the ADSL market.<br>
><br>
> Oversimplification me thinks...<br>
><br>
> [b]<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> So the rack space, cable infrastructure, routers, electricity, 24x7 NOC<br>
>> etc. that you use to connect to them, *if* you qualify as a peer, is all<br>
>> free?<br>
>><br>
>> Think about it. A company spends millions of dollars on equipment and<br>
>> installs fibre across Australia, and is then going to let everybody use<br>
>> it for gratis? That's a business plan to very rapidly go out of<br>
> business.<br>
>> I suspect the "free peering" myth has come from the days when<br>
> residential<br>
>> ADSL offered "free Pipe". The only reason it was "free"<br>
> to customers was<br>
>> that the ISP chose not to bill the customers for it.<br>
><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>