[AusNOG] List charter Vs Reporters on the list

[Matt Carter]

All completely fair points and I hope I have not caused any offence certainly none was intended, but to respond

Yes the moment an email is committed it is no longer private, that is common sense - it wasn't about seeing titillating emails without people knowing, nor was it about suggesting an "enemy of the state" .. It is simply a case that there is a time and place, and I would argue that cold calls by reporters upon receipt of any information when the intent of the original poster is to assess an operational network affecting issue, and is in the midst of trying to undertake that action, is not the correct choice of time nor place.

The concept of a closed list, although brutal, would achieve in most cases, a time delay element which is all that is necessary to assess, investigate, resolve. It's not about disclosure, its just the story can wait, you'll get your answers. We all hate when stuff breaks, and most are happy to talk about it  - In some lands, they might call this type of closed list on operational issues  "noc to noc" - hmmmm

I believed from the charter, the list should promote lateral communication between carriers on these topics. You state that we should barr transgressors to the charter, but then suggest that it's ok for media folks to "bug" people for more info - So there is clearly a very individualistic & fine line between how one perceives "leads" .. I say, when you read something on the internet, which promotes you make an journalist based telephone call - that is using a lead. But hey if I'm wrong so be it. Perhaps the end result here is just an acceleration of that which is already happening within the framework of process, and it is simply these types of communications only go on behind closed doors..

... Maybe thinking along the lines of SP/telco lateral comms - Could there could be a such a dreamy concept as AusNOC ? By in large we already have shortcuts to each other through peering fabrics, why not at the human discussion layer. Just some food for thought, I'm not proposing a shoot down of AusNog, it certainly has its place, I'm just thinking out loud with regards to how operational issues are discussed and responded to by the people that have to deal with getting "bugged" when they are trying to conduct fault resolution...


From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Grahame Lynch
Sent: Wednesday, 14 April 2010 7:08 PM
To: Neil Fenemor
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] List charter Vs Reporters on the list

If I can make a comment as a member of the fourth estate and someone who tries to live by the charter, I will make several points.

1) Being on this list makes me more technically literate and helps improve the quality of technology journalism in CommsDay. I'm sure you would all agree that journalists all need help in that area.

2) If someone transgresses the charter they should be individually barred. We don't ban an entire racial minority from something because some people in their group trangress laws. I live in Thailand and we are seeing the consequences of that type of group think on the streets currently.

3) The minute you commit something to email it is no longer private. The number of forwarded private emails I get as a journalist is staggering. On AusNOG you know I am here. A closed list? I might still see your titillating emails without you knowing and no longer feel bound by your house rules. I probably get forwarded over 500 "private" emails a year. People aren't very ethical like that. Sad but true. If you decide to go all licentious in your now "apparently closed list" emails you will probably get a bigger audience not a smaller one.

4) If ten people on this list say their Optus link is down I am not sure as a journalist I would bug you for more info. I would bug Optus. That is not me using the list for "leads", that is me making an observation that a carrier probably should be asked for restoration information to help them communicate to their customer base. I would probably find out from sources other than this list anyhow.

5) I was originally invited on to this list by a co-founder and I support AusNOG's annual event through media promotion and other forms of support. I would hate to be regarded as an "enemy of the state"

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