[AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.

Wed Oct 3 13:49:57 EST 2018

Luckily while a very male-dominated industry, we're not lacking eminently
qualified and talented women so I'm certain a gender balanced board is
easily achievable.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 1:00 PM James Troy <
james.troy at agilityapplications.com> wrote:

> Benno,
>
> As I mentioned on the backlash – here it is…
>
>
>
> You see my response as not very positive or helpful – I think that is
> quite sad really.
>
>
>
> “White dude” – well ½ of that is right… I am actually TSI. I would NEVER
> want to be selected/hired/elected based on this. To the point its why I
> never include it on any application forms, not because im ashamed of who am
> I, but because I want to be selected on merit…
>
>
>
> The difference between my post and Mark’s post was he was offering help to
> the victim, I am offering my thought/advice on a selection/election to a
> board. I can see how you got these confused.
>
>
>
> I really hope there is full representation on any board, job, industry,
> etc. I guess I wasn’t clear enough the first time – Do it on merit. If that
> means on my next job interview I get pipped at the post by a more qualified
> female/different ethnicity/religion person/pigeon then great. Its what I
> want. Equality – real equality; not the quota kind.
>
>
>
> James Troy
>
> Senior Systems Administration
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net> *On Behalf Of *Benno Rice
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:21 PM
> *To:* ausnog at ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
>
>
>
> So I, too, am a lurker on this list. Hell, I don’t even run any networks
> besides my home one, haven’t done for ages.
>
>
>
> That said I, too, have been watching this with interest and I’ve seen two
> responses, well one response, and one class of responses, that I find
> interesting.
>
>
>
> On the one hand, you’ve got stuff like James here. James is running the
> exact same set of arguments that you normally get from, generally, white
> dudes that feel threatened by any attempt to address the systemic problems
> we have in society in general and tech in particular. Yes, yes I know they
> don’t believe that those problems are there but, well, whatever. I saw
> similar from Noel Butler and from Matthew Young up-thread. All of these
> tend to come across as a knee-jerk reaction against the notion that we
> might actually do something.
>
>
>
> On the other hand we had Mark Newton’s “What I can do to help.” post.
> Instead of a knee-jerk reaction against doing something, he put forward a
> completely reasonable set of steps that he promised to do if someone were
> to come forward. Hell, his set of steps form a pretty good basis for the
> enforcement process of a Code of Conduct.
>
>
>
> One of these messages was positive and valuable. The others were very much
> not.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>               Benno.
>
>
>
> On 3 Oct 2018, at 12:57, James Troy <james.troy at agilityapplications.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that
> is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this
> thread with a particular keen interest.
>
>
>
> Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender
> diversity’ was going to get pushed.
>
>
>
> Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable.
> Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you
> start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely
> on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy
> subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’
>
>
>
> If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all
> selected on their merits.
>
>
>
> Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely
> different can. Ie: is there someone of
> Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be
> racist?
>
>
>
> Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable.
>
>
>
> I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go
> to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of
> race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender,
> percentages, inclusion policies is _*not*_ the way to get the recognition
> that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated
> industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected
> for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition –
> not simply to be the token male.
>
>
>
> We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our
> colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that
> if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it
> should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo
> being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a
> shread of proof.
>
>
>
> I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that
> proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was
> suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the **Alleged** (I
> use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process –
> innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that
> are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be
> established and only then actioned upon.
>
>
>
> Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all…
>
>
>
> James Troy
>
> Senior Systems Administration
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net> *On Behalf Of *dusty
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM
> *To:* Matthew Young <matt at mattyoung.net.au>
> *Cc:* ausnog at ausnog.net List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young <matt at mattyoung.net.au> wrote:
>
> “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the
> Ausnog board.”
>
> People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their
> gender.
>
>
>
> Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll
> show you a deluded patriarchal fool.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> Wilkins
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM
> *To:* ausnog at ausnog.net List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
>
>
>
> "Seems you've never been to a meeting."
>
>
>
> The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point.
> >
> > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the
> Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're
> all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing.
> >
>
> Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing
> session.
>
>
>
> > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise
> to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Paul Wilkins
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes <david at hughes.com.au> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our
> attention.
> >>
> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature
> very seriously.  We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an
> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of
> all parties.  If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance
> to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further.
> >>
> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events
> have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and
> supported.  We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other
> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable
> for AusNOG events and mailing lists.
> >>
> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not
> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry.  We
> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader
> solution.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board
> >> ...
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AusNOG mailing list
> >> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
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