[AusNOG] Assistance and Access Bill moves to PJCIS

[Mark Smith]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 15:43, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Let's not forget that without the State there could be no internet.

No, lets forget that, because it makes no sense, unless the Internet
was developed in a communist country. It wasn't.

> So there needs to be an accomodation between the rights of the individual and the rights of the State.

The "rights of the State" are the rights of the collective of
individuals, because the "State" is the collective of individuals.

>Part of the terms are dictated by political reality, but there are also moral questions as to the right of the State to interfere with individual liberty. In some ways, as I've said before, this isn't ontologically new territory, but goes back to Rousseau's notion of the social contract, that the individual surrenders the absolute liberty of  anarchy, for the security benefits conferred by the state under the rule of law.
>
> I'm less concerned that the State may ask a judge for a computer warrant, than I am the Attorney General issuing TCNs to access carrier metadata datastreams and using that for mass surveillance, or law enforcement then forcing patches on service providers for my phone/television to enable the mike and camera's for surveillance because I've triggered some kind of Minority Report scenario, because, you know, they're doing their job and in the AG's opinion it's reasonable.
>
> In the case of the computer warrant, Law Enforcement have to allege a specific breach of the criminal code, and establish evidentiary grounds this crime is being committed to a judge's satisfaction. Much in the Assistance and Access Bill leaves Law Enforcement as the decision makers as to what and how is to be investigated. It is actually possible to simultaneously want to see the rule of law be enforced, but without establishing the machinery of a police state.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
>
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 13:43, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 11:29, Scott Weeks <surfer at mauigateway.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- paulwilkins369 at gmail.com wrote:
>> > From: Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com>
>> >
>> > I do think (and it's not a generally popular position) that
>> > the internet does need to, and is going to be, regulated.
>> > ----------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > No.  Absolutely does not need to be and cannot be anyway,
>> > unless you do a China.  Maybe this is what they're jealous
>> > of?  Total control over the media and all information.
>> > Like, you know, the Dark Ages...
>> >
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> I wonder what Paul specifically thinks needs to be regulated. If it is
>> a general view, rather than a specific one, then Paul has
>> authoritarian beliefs (in other words, just the idea that somebody can
>> do something without first seeking and being given permission is an
>> anathema).
>>
>> The fundamental and most significant benefit of the Internet has been
>> that its architecture has permitted permissionless innovation, through
>> application protocol transparency in the network. To deploy a new
>> application or service over the Internet, you do not have to seek
>> permission of a telco for them to carry your traffic.
>>
>> IPv4 NATs have significantly limited the Internet's transparency,
>> which is why people have been creating an ad hoc and more transparent
>> virtual overlay network over the Internet using UDP - "UDP over IPv4 –
>> a stepping stone to IPv6?" -
>> https://blog.apnic.net/2017/03/24/udp-ipv4-stepping-stone-ipv6/ .
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mark.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > scott
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>> >
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