[AusNOG] Assistance and Access Bill moves to PJCIS

[Paul Wilkins]

s/Fourth Amendment

On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 at 12:15, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's a very good question how, when anyone who knows what they're talking
> about opposes the Bill
>  as an effective and reasonable approach to fighting terrorism and serious
> crime in the context of increasing use of encryption, why is the Home
> Affairs Department foisting this ill considered and poorly developed Bill
> on the Nation?
>
> I think partly it's cultural cringe. The NSA surveil their citizens, and
> when ministers attend 5 Eyes conferences, they want to be just as macho.
> But of course, the NSA have a clue, and they're resourced. It's still
> dazzling that the NSA could have been in breach of the 1st Amendment for as
> long as they were. In Australia we don't have a Bill of Rights, because
> government has always observed the Westminster convention that we'll
> respect the traditions of democracy - until they choose not to.
>
> It's not so important whether those pushing the Bill on us understand the
> technical consequences. They're taking advice from people they trust.
> Dutton comes from the Queensland Police, and Hastie, the PJCIS Chairman,
> was a Dutton supporter in the rolling of Turnbull. It's the mandarins
> within Home Affairs or the Police who are telling the government this is
> within their capability. As far as I can see, the few submissions
> supporting the Bill are from police organisations.
>
> I think we're beyond Dutton or Hastie caring if the Bill is good for the
> nation. They're effectively riding a tiger where they've accused anyone
> opposing the Bill to be weak on terrorism. So instead of a sensible public
> discussion of how to enable legal intercept for encrypted communications,
> we're getting the Liberal Trumpists using the Bill as a blunt object to
> wedge Labor on terrorism and that's all that matters.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 at 17:21, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri., 23 Nov. 2018, 16:46 Robert Hudson <hudrob at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 at 14:47, Paul Brooks <pbrooks-ausnog at layer10.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/11/2018 11:37 AM, Alex Samad wrote:
>>>> > Wondering what the implications of this bill and the recent China was
>>>> stealing our
>>>> > traffic....
>>>> >
>>>> > So in theory could china steal / sniff our traffic and because of
>>>> these weakening of
>>>> > encryption allow china to snope on our stuff
>>>> >
>>>> > A
>>>> In theory no - this bill doesn't weaken encryption, and explicitly
>>>> doesn't allow any
>>>> changes that would weaken encryption.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They say that - but I don't believe them.  I don't think they even
>>> understand what they're suggesting (or if they do understand, they're
>>> relying on others not understanding, or not caring).
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This bill seeks to bypass encryption entirely by giving the agencies
>>>> easier access to
>>>> get into devices and the back-end databases of apps and websites, to
>>>> see what is
>>>> stored in there -bypassing unlock codes, PINS, thumbprint readers etc
>>>> on devices for
>>>> example. So for traffic being sniffed 'in the middle' the information
>>>> is still
>>>> sent/received as fully encrypted - and man-in-the-middle snooper won't
>>>> see anything.
>>>> But if the authorities get hold of your phone or PC, they'll have
>>>> easier access to
>>>> look into your sent/received message stores and read whats in there,
>>>> which is stored
>>>> in your device un-encrypted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The tools the authorities have access to will invariably fall into the
>>> hands of others.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Or be abused by those who have official access to them.
>>
>>
>> "Queensland in court fight with domestic violence victim whose details
>> leaked by policeman"
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/aug/21/queensland-in-court-fight-with-domestic-violence-victim-whose-details-leaked-by-policeman
>>
>>
>> "NSA SEXINT IS THE ABUSE YOU’VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR"
>>
>> http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/11/nsa-sexint-abuse-you
>> ’ve-all-been-waiting
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In practice, if they balls-up the change request given to the device
>>>> manufacturer or
>>>> app/website developer, anything could happen.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yep.  Aside from the direct ramifications, it's the indirect and
>>> unintended consequences that REALLY have the potential to be damaging.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> P.
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>
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