[AusNOG] Assistance and Access Bill moves to PJCIS
Paul Brooks
pbrooks-ausnog at layer10.com.au
Wed Nov 21 19:13:53 EST 2018
On 21/11/2018 6:33 PM, Robert Hudson wrote:
> I sent an email to my local (LNP) MP, who forwarded it to Dutton, who sent a letter
> back on lovely heavy paper stock.
>
> Dutton of course completely missed the point, not least of all because he wants to
> miss the point as it is inconvenient for his agenda).
Its a reasonable start, and good on you for writing the letter - Dutton of course will
feel that you are completely missing the point, because you're both arguing different
points.
The important thing is that, if this thing is pushed back into Parliament, its the
lower house MPs and Upper House Senators that will be voting on this, and probably
voting along party lines. Neither you, now I, or anybody else on this list gets to
participate in that vote.
Minister Dutton is unlikely to change his mind, no matter how many people write to him
- in his mind he's doing this to protect the people, and anyone thinking thats a poor
idea must be against protecting the people. Also, now its a matter of pride and
personal embarrassment if he was to back down now - so that is unlikely to happen,
even if you manage to shake his private conviction that its all for the greater good.
To influence that vote, letters and briefings to other MPs and senators on all sides,
to work to influence each major Party (and the independents) view of the Bill is more
likely to have an effect on the voting numbers.
And FWIW, I've found arguments that lean towards demonstrating the measures are
impractical, infeasible, risky, or likely to cause embarassment tend to be more
powerful than arguments leaning on philosophy - arguments like "you shouldn't even be
wanting to do this because we're a liberal democracy" aren't likely to wash as much as
'if thats what you're trying to achieve, doing like that won't work or is very risky
because...'
Paul.
>
> If anyone wants a scanned copy (could be useful for determining a point of weakness
> in the argument he and DOHA are pushing, I'm happy to share.
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov. 2018, 5:18 pm Paul Brooks <pbrooks-ausnog at layer10.com.au
> <mailto:pbrooks-ausnog at layer10.com.au> wrote:
>
> Thanks Rob.
> In the latest, Dutton wants to speed up the Bill and have it passed "next week",
> and has apparently asked the PJCIS to cut short its evaluation, according to
> reporting of an interview on Sky News.
>
> Dutton tries to speed up encryption bill
> <https://www.itnews.com.au/news/dutton-tries-to-speed-up-encryption-bill-515862>
>
> (Point of clarification - that bit about smart and dumb criminals was while
> trying to explain the difference between a system having a capability that can
> be used by the operator to implement a "act or thing", and an operator actually
> using that capability in a particular instance against a particular target - and
> that the existence of the capability isn't and shouldn't be secret, even if the
> actual use in response to a warrant was still kept a secret. That distinction
> has been difficult for the committee to understand without a simple illustration.)
>
>
> Paul.
>
>
> On 21/11/2018 2:00 PM, Robert Hudson wrote:
>> (Not necessarily a direct response to Paul's email, just additional data for
>> the thread).
>>
>> Traditional media are starting to pick this up, and they're just parroting the
>> govt position. Macquarie Radio news at 8am ran a story on it this morning, and
>> it was all about Dutton saying he wants the legislation passed quickly so they
>> can catch more terrorists.
>>
>> Other than the point well made by Paul Brooks that the only criminals who will
>> be caught by this are the dumb ones (there was a link made between this
>> proposed legislation and three potential terrorists were were arrested -
>> without this legislation in place), and the smarter criminals (ie those capable
>> of tieing their own shoe laces) will simply use software that is not subject to
>> the legislation, there is an extension - to break the encryption WILL involve
>> creating vulnerabilities (there's simply no way around this), and those
>> vulnerabilities will then be available for criminals (the bar may be higher
>> than shoelaces, maybe they can button their own shirts as well) to exploit and
>> compromise data that is legitimately encrypted.
>>
>> In summary - there is no upside to this proposed legislation as far as
>> encryption goes, and there is a significant potential downside.
>>
>> It cannot be allowed to pass.
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Nov. 2018, 12:09 pm Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:paulwilkins369 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm wondering when the other shoe will drop that the Bill enables mass
>> collection and analysis of metadata without any further legislation needed.
>> Or the implications that metadata from multiple sources (phone
>> towers/CCTV/Social Media), lays the foundations for the establishment of
>> the machinery of a police state. Of course, this will make prosecution of
>> crime straightforward (the police will only need to correlate crime against
>> a database of the public's electronic fingerprints). However, such powerful
>> machinery can be used for oppressive purposes, and the Bill is absent the
>> checks and balances consistent with the traditions and institutions of
>> Liberal Democracy.
>>
>> If one were cynical you might think the Bill's outrageous overreach is
>> deliberate, a Trumpist ploy to enrage the unthinking. And when we see
>> critics of the Bill slandered for being weak on terrorism, maybe not so
>> wide of the mark or so cynical.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Paul Wilkins
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 04:15, Scott Weeks <surfer at mauigateway.com
>> <mailto:surfer at mauigateway.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 18:12, Christian Heinrich
>> <christian.heinrich at cmlh.id.au <mailto:christian.heinrich at cmlh.id.au>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/victoria-police-arrest-three-people-allegedly-planning-a-terror-attack-in-melbourne/news-story/e6a92273b37dce750937e1e0f86a7dcd
>> > has quoted Mr Dutton on WhatsApp again but from my reading WhatsApp
>> > was not used in this specific case?
>>
>> This has now been alleged within
>> https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/unacceptable-risk-the-secret-way-terrorists-and-criminals-are-communicating/news-story/731ca32e7432601d6b3ce5ca4f34bf80
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> These stories read like gov't scare tactics. Scare people
>> enough and they'll 'give up liberty for a little safety'.
>> They do not read like objective journalism.'
>>
>> How did they catch everyone without eliminating privacy
>> anyway? Good ol' police work?
>>
>> scott
>>
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