[AusNOG] Assistance and Access Bill moves to PJCIS

[Robert Hudson]

If Australia passes this into law, we become the source of data for the
others. We just do the dirty work for them.

Why have a dog and do your own barking? Why spy on your citizens when
Australia can do it for you?

On Wed, 5 Dec. 2018, 11:49 am Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com wrote:

> "If this passes I can see similar legislation being introduced in other
> jurisdictions."
>
> I think this legislation and all its warts is going to be a particularly
> Australian feature.
>
> The UK have RIPA already, which will probably become enforceable law after
> Brexit but there the notices require judicial approval. Europe is a no go
> due to GDPR and America has the 2nd Amendment, so surveilling citizens is
> a non starter.
>
> So far I've not seen any mention the interim law will have a sunset
> clause. Let's see, but if there's to be new legislation after the election,
> we may get a very different result.
>
> Without a sunset clause, political reality, we'll have to wear a botched
> job.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 10:30, Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > On 5 Dec 2018, at 9:54 am, Ross Wheeler <rossw at albury.net.au> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Wed, 5 Dec 2018, Mark Andrews wrote:
>> >
>> >> More than likely they will get the app developer to make
>> >> a custom version,
>> >
>> > I wonder if they pay the app developer for this "service"?
>> > If the developer is outside Australian jurisdiction, how can they
>> “persuade"
>> > the developer to comply? And what's to stop the developer telling all
>> and
>> > sundry what the changes were?
>>
>> If this passes I can see similar legislation being introduced in other
>> jurisdictions.  Also “you cannot sell to Australians” with enforced
>> removal from app stores is likely to happen.  From the government’s
>> perspective removal of the app is just as good as a compromised app.
>>
>> >> Most people will update when they are told the app is out of date.
>> >
>> > After this legislation passes, I think a great many people - especially
>> > those doing things that may bring them to the attention of authorities -
>> > will be highly suspicious of "updates" of all sorts.
>>
>> They still have to communicate with the rest of the world which is moving
>> on.
>>
>> >> We are training people to update regularly to close security holes.
>> >
>> > Or, to open new ones, as the case may soon be.
>>
>> In general updating is the safer thing to do despite the small
>> risk of new bugs being introduced especially if it update is
>> billed as a maintenance release.
>>
>> >> Alternatively they will covertly install the updated version
>> >> on the device.
>> >
>> > If they have the ability to do that now, why are the extra powers
>> required?
>>
>> Reverse engineering a fake app to make it behave like the original app is
>> difficult and error prone.  Much simpler to get the developer to add the
>> covert logging capability to the existing app.
>>
>> > R.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Andrews, ISC
>> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
>> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: marka at isc.org
>>
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