[AusNOG] All Melbourne -> Melbourne Traffic Routing via Sydney with TPG/PIPE/Tronic
Sam McLeod
ausnog at smcleod.net
Wed May 10 14:23:54 EST 2017
Thanks for the info Jay,
What does a traceroute to say to 114.31.196.55 look like?
~# traceroute 103.75.204.2
traceroute to 103.75.204.2 (103.75.204.2), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 <redacted> 2.017 ms 1.055 ms 0.918 ms
2 <redacted> 0.305 ms 0.340 ms 0.230 ms
3 ve2057.rv-376flinders-cer-01.tpg-telecom.net (203.192.88.161) 1.112
ms 1.943 ms 0.684 ms
4 ve100.rv-376flinders-mlx-01.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.204)
10.524 ms 10.549 ms 10.703 ms
5 eth10-7.rn-400harris-mlx-03.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.170)
10.563 ms 11.888 ms 10.567 ms
6 eth2-1.rn-639gardeners-mlx-02.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.25)
10.720 ms 10.835 ms 10.719 ms
7 ve101.rn-639gardeners-cer-01.tpg-telecom.net (121.101.138.201)
10.723 ms 10.621 ms 10.739 ms
8 syd-apt-ros-wgw1-te-0-0-1-2.tpg.com.au (203.161.139.242) 11.269 ms
12.102 ms 11.193 ms
9 203-219-107-198.static.tpgi.com.au (203.219.107.198) 11.372 ms
11.656 ms 11.388 ms
10 119.225.216.17 (119.225.216.17) 10.844 ms 10.935 ms 10.858 ms
11 * * *
12 * * *
13 * * *
14 * 59.154.142.40 (59.154.142.40) 11.235 ms 11.064 ms
15 59.154.142.42 (59.154.142.42) 12.164 ms
220.101.73.82 (220.101.73.82) 11.906 ms 11.733 ms
16 bundle-108.cor03.syd03.nsw.vocus.net.au (114.31.192.84) 13.164 ms
220.101.73.82 (220.101.73.82) 13.246 ms 14.214 ms
17 bundle-104.cor02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.192.61) 13.122 ms
bundle-100.cor02.mel07.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.177) 12.885 ms
bundle-108.cor01.syd04.nsw.vocus.net.au (114.31.192.86) 21.114 ms
18 bundle-100.cor02.mel07.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.177) 13.721 ms
13.934 ms 13.948 ms
19 bundle-150.bdr02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.55) 19.819 ms
ether8-cor1-mel3.bdr1.mel3.unitiwireless.com (103.75.204.2) 22.436
ms !N
bundle-150.bdr02.mel11.vic.vocus.net.au (114.31.196.55) 15.036 ms
--
Sam McLeod
@s_mcleod | smcleod.net
Words are my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of my
employer or partners.
On Wed, 10 May 2017, at 02:15 PM, Jay Dixon wrote:
> FWIW we're on a TPG/AAPT connection here and our routing is fine
> we were on a PIPE/TPG connection at the previous office and i never noticed any issues with it.
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Sam McLeod <ausnog at smcleod.net> wrote:
>> All I can say is wow - I've had tens, upon tens of responses to my post!
>>
>> Thank you for the information that those of you who have contacted me
>> have provided, it's certainly painted a consistently clear picture for
>> me that resonates with my personal experiences of dealing with said
>> companies.
>>
>> As most replies were sent to me directly I shall obviously respect
>> peoples privacy by not responding with their comments in the mailing
>> list, however the general summary from what I'm hearing from people who
>> have emailed me is:
>>
>> * "TPG / AAPT / PIPE are not trustworthy and are likely BSing you /
>> pulling the wool over your eyes."
>> * "TPG / AAPT / PIPE / Tronic's routes do indeed look very wrong" and
>> the situation I've described is "not good routing behaviour."
>> * Other customers in Adelaide and Brisbane amongst others experience the
>> same routing issues with TPG / AAPT / PIPE or Tronic.
>> * They appear "not to have paid for a Melbourne POP/POI and are cheaping
>> out on their network design."
>> * Several responses were that people are in the works or about to
>> "cancel their connections with them."
>> * People have experiences "City -> Sydney -> Original City routing from
>> PIPE... within their own rack in the same DC."
>> * Multiple responses stating that after investigation "TPG/PIPE or
>> Tronic's routing is 'broken' or 'insane'."
>>
>> --
>> Sam McLeod
>> @s_mcleod | smcleod.net
>>
>> Words are my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of my
>> employer of partners.
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 10 May 2017, at 01:15 PM, Sam McLeod wrote:
>> > Hi AusNOG,
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone else uses TPG/PIPE/Tronic in Melbourne or
>> another major city and has any input on this.
>>
>> Essentially all our traffic is backhauled all the way up from Melbourne
>> to Sydney and back, even if it’s destined for Melbourne.
>>
>> I've been told by TPG/PIPE/Tronic (Tronic is a reseller of TPG/PIPE)
>> that this is on purpose / by design:
>>
>> ---
>>
>> “This is by design …
>>
>> When you get a connection with PIPE this is connected to their Sydney
>> Data Center as this is their main core DC.
>> Being the main core it has more bandwidth and all the main local and
>> international connections are directly connected there.
>> Where the Melbourne data center you peer to Sydney first before going
>> out most of these links.
>>
>> So we are told the extra latency from user to DC is worth it because
>> from DC out you’ll get lower latency and better bandwidth available.”
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Which makes no sense to us as engineers as that’s not really how
>> networks or the internet works, we've even have services directly from
>> PIPE in the past which wasn't backhauled via Sydney.
>>
>> This (along with peering) makes routing both nationally and
>> internationally, for example a route that goes out our Vocus link to
>> other ISPs here in Melbourne is 4-6 hops, whereas TPG/PIPE/Tronic is
>> anywhere from 18 to 26 hops.
>>
>> In addition to the odd network design, we experience weekly outages to
>> TPG/PIPE/Tronic’s fibre services with devices / hops within their
>> network failing and packets disappearing, when the reseller has logged
>> tickets with TPG/PIPE the results have been one of two things 1) (The
>> most common) – there were no problems or 2) There was a problem that
>> affected traffic (no further information).
>>
>> So as you can imagine, this is a bit frustrating, especially when we’ve
>> been informed by our reseller that TPG/PIPE take 10 day to respond to a
>> sev 1 production outage ticket that’s been logged with them.
>>
>> Now we’ve been told by our reseller that we’re absolutely not allowed to
>> log tickets directly with TPG/PIPE and must go through them and as we’re
>> still within contract we’ve got our hands tied to a certain degree.
>>
>> I’m not interested in having a whinge at TPG/PIPE/Tronic here, I’m
>> genuinely interested in finding out if others have these problems as
>> well and taking on any advice as to mitigating all the issues this
>> causes.
>>
>> --
>> Sam McLeod
>>
>> Words are my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of my
>> employer of partners.
>> >
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