[AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?

Tue Sep 13 16:05:39 EST 2016

I understand, but trying to artificially alter my route.  Eg. if I can find a VPN provider termination point that is routable via SE-ME-WE3, I could then VPN tunnel there and the routing would be calculated from the exit of the tunnel (and not the AU origin).

From: Tin, James [mailto:jtin at akamai.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 4:02 PM
To: Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com>; Adam Baxter <adam1984 at gmail.com>
Cc: Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net; Serto, Fernando <fserto at akamai.com>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?

As a user on the internet, it’s not really possible to choose which paths to take.
This is done for you with BGP, as as you can obviously see, BGP uses a metric of Cost ($$$) rather than throughput, loss or congestion.
So the path it takes will the one with the least cost to each service provider.

J/

From: Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com<mailto:cquinn at mrv.com>>
Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 3:31 PM
To: Adam Baxter <adam1984 at gmail.com<mailto:adam1984 at gmail.com>>, James Tin <jtin at akamai.com<mailto:jtin at akamai.com>>
Cc: Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com<mailto:kim.pearce at gmail.com>>, "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>>, Fernando Sertp <fserto at akamai.com<mailto:fserto at akamai.com>>
Subject: RE: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?

It’s just remote desktop to a linux machine for 1 person, so trying to do it on the cheap (if it’s possible).

Does anyone have a list of ISPs in Australia who use SE-ME-WE-3?  That’s the path I need, but haven’t been able to hit it using a few looking glasses (everything prefers US that I’ve seen – probably cost decision).

Cheers
Clay

From: Adam Baxter [mailto:adam1984 at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:57 PM
To: Tin, James <jtin at akamai.com<mailto:jtin at akamai.com>>
Cc: Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com<mailto:cquinn at mrv.com>>; Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com<mailto:kim.pearce at gmail.com>>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>; Serto, Fernando <fserto at akamai.com<mailto:fserto at akamai.com>>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?

Modern RDP can use UDP..

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2592687<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.microsoft.com_en-2Dus_kb_2592687&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=Ok91FiNbFWtzHoJmc1x9TKZAETJIEiREDq8pI-XybdM&s=e0CE-sf86yGj5gy0pEuciOGFgDzMAsGUPnVwx0INidw&e=>

On 13 September 2016 at 14:38, Tin, James <jtin at akamai.com<mailto:jtin at akamai.com>> wrote:
Clay, what App or resources are you accessing or providing?
As someone mentioned, if terminal services, you can use VMware’s PCOIP for delivery over UDP, this overcomes the TCP inefficiencies but you need a lot of bandwidth capacity.

Depending on your budget there are some solutions to address the poor user experience, poor throughput and lack of control over the internet.

There are some technologies which run some races over diverse paths and will map across the internet, then choose the best path based on performance, packet loss etc.
There is also wan optimisation such that if you do lose a packet, the packet will be rebuilt based upon additional parity bits (Forward Error Correction).
Additionally, the traffic can be delivered over the internet using UDP instead of TCP, which overcomes the TCP performance problems.
The 3 solutions combined will make a massive difference for performance.

Riverbed has some of this and uses Sure Route from Akamai Technologies.
Akamai has all 3 capabilities built into IP Accelerator which does FEC, Sure Route, delivery over UDP, TCP optimisatation, you access their network in the source and destination countries and rely upon their global platform for delivery (so any loss is retransmitted locally at each end as a full proxy, DSA and their web acceleration products.
Cisco also has something along these lines.
There are also solutions from Silver Peak and Citrix which provide FEC, but rely upon BGP.
Some telco’s are going to be offering this as a premium service based on Akamai’s technology.

So depending on your app and your budget, there are a number of ways to address this without digging up the earth of deploying your own super expensive private link for part of the connectivity.

J/

From: Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com<mailto:cquinn at mrv.com>>
Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 2:07 PM
To: Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com<mailto:kim.pearce at gmail.com>>, "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>>

Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?

I knew I could depend on AusNOG to explore every option - thanks :)

A colleague of mine suggested to VPN to a point half-way along the alternate direction (eg India) and see if the connection would be routed through Europe from there.  Could reduce the latency significantly, worth a shot.  Will let you know if I succeed.

Also some others suggested to tweak the TCP settings, which I will also look into – again, thanks.

Cheers

Clay

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Kim Pearce
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:05 PM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?

And if you drill, it is a 20,000km round trip - ~(10,000km along the chord from SYD to TLV)

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org<mailto:marka at isc.org>> wrote:

In message <AM5PR0301MB24814072C2675F44C808F43AD2FE0 at AM5PR0301MB2481.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com<mailto:AM5PR0301MB24814072C2675F44C808F43AD2FE0 at AM5PR0301MB2481.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>>, Clay Quinn writes:
>
> Hi All,
>
> An oddball question - is anyone using services over Internet to Israel
> (VPN etc), and if so what is your round-trip latency?  From a Telstra TID
> connection I'm getting around 400ms (Sydney, LA, New York, UK, France,
> Israel).  I'm curious if there's a less-latent path on another
> provider/route (RDP sessions are painfully slow).

SYD to TLV is 8813 great circle miles (14183km).  This gives a lower
bound on a terrestrial path unless you start drilling.

> Using 30,000km as an estimate for the fibre distance, that gives a
> theoretical minimum latency of 300ms (0.5us/km * 30,000km * both
> directions).  So there's an additional 100ms of overhead there (OEO
> conversions probably - 30 hops in traceroute).
>
> If that's par for the course, I guess WAN acceleration is really the only
> option - I understand it's a pretty long path.  If anyone has any unique
> solutions to this problem I'd love to hear it.
>
>
> Cheers
> Clay
>
> Clay Quinn
> Presales Engineer
> MRV Communications Pty Ltd.
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