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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I understand, but trying to artificially alter my route. Eg. if I can find a VPN provider termination point that is routable via SE-ME-WE3, I could
then VPN tunnel there and the routing would be calculated from the exit of the tunnel (and not the AU origin).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Tin, James [mailto:jtin@akamai.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 13 September 2016 4:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Clay Quinn <cquinn@mrv.com>; Adam Baxter <adam1984@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kim Pearce <kim.pearce@gmail.com>; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net; Serto, Fernando <fserto@akamai.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As a user on the internet, it’s not really possible to choose which paths to take.
<br>
This is done for you with BGP, as as you can obviously see, BGP uses a metric of Cost ($$$) rather than throughput, loss or congestion.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">So the path it takes will the one with the least cost to each service provider.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">J/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Clay Quinn <<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com">cquinn@mrv.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 3:31 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Adam Baxter <<a href="mailto:adam1984@gmail.com">adam1984@gmail.com</a>>, James Tin <<a href="mailto:jtin@akamai.com">jtin@akamai.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Kim Pearce <<a href="mailto:kim.pearce@gmail.com">kim.pearce@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>>, Fernando Sertp <<a href="mailto:fserto@akamai.com">fserto@akamai.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">It’s just remote desktop to a linux machine for 1 person, so trying to do it on the cheap (if it’s possible).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Does anyone have a list of ISPs in Australia who use SE-ME-WE-3? That’s the path I need, but haven’t been able to hit it using a few looking glasses (everything prefers US
that I’ve seen – probably cost decision).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Clay</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Adam Baxter [<a href="mailto:adam1984@gmail.com">mailto:adam1984@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tin, James <<a href="mailto:jtin@akamai.com">jtin@akamai.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Clay Quinn <<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com">cquinn@mrv.com</a>>; Kim Pearce <<a href="mailto:kim.pearce@gmail.com">kim.pearce@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>; Serto, Fernando <<a href="mailto:fserto@akamai.com">fserto@akamai.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Modern RDP can use UDP..<br>
<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.microsoft.com_en-2Dus_kb_2592687&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=Ok91FiNbFWtzHoJmc1x9TKZAETJIEiREDq8pI-XybdM&s=e0CE-sf86yGj5gy0pEuciOGFgDzMAsGUPnVwx0INidw&e=">https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2592687</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 13 September 2016 at 14:38, Tin, James <<a href="mailto:jtin@akamai.com" target="_blank">jtin@akamai.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Clay, what App or resources are you accessing or providing?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As someone mentioned, if terminal services, you can use VMware’s PCOIP for delivery over UDP, this overcomes
the TCP inefficiencies but you need a lot of bandwidth capacity.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Depending on your budget there are some solutions to address the poor user experience, poor throughput
and lack of control over the internet.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There are some technologies which run some races over diverse paths and will map across the internet,
then choose the best path based on performance, packet loss etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There is also wan optimisation such that if you do lose a packet, the packet will be rebuilt based upon
additional parity bits (Forward Error Correction). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Additionally, the traffic can be delivered over the internet using UDP instead of TCP, which overcomes
the TCP performance problems. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The 3 solutions combined will make a massive difference for performance.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Riverbed has some of this and uses Sure Route from Akamai Technologies.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Akamai has all 3 capabilities built into IP Accelerator which does FEC, Sure Route, delivery over UDP,
TCP optimisatation, you access their network in the source and destination countries and rely upon their global platform for delivery (so any loss is retransmitted locally at each end as a full proxy, DSA and their web acceleration products.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cisco also has something along these lines.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There are also solutions from Silver Peak and Citrix which provide FEC, but rely upon BGP.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Some telco’s are going to be offering this as a premium service based on Akamai’s technology.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">So depending on your app and your budget, there are a number of ways to address this without digging
up the earth of deploying your own super expensive private link for part of the connectivity.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">J/</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Clay Quinn <<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com" target="_blank">cquinn@mrv.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Kim Pearce <<a href="mailto:kim.pearce@gmail.com" target="_blank">kim.pearce@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p>I knew I could depend on AusNOG to explore every option - thanks :)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>A colleague of mine suggested to VPN to a point half-way along the alternate direction (eg India) and see if the connection would be routed through Europe from there. Could reduce the latency significantly, worth a shot. Will let you know if I succeed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Also some others suggested to tweak the TCP settings, which I will also look into – again, thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Clay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> AusNOG
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kim Pearce<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">And if you drill, it is a 20,000km round trip - ~(10,000km along the chord from SYD to TLV)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mark Andrews <<a href="mailto:marka@isc.org" target="_blank">marka@isc.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
In message <<a href="mailto:AM5PR0301MB24814072C2675F44C808F43AD2FE0@AM5PR0301MB2481.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">AM5PR0301MB24814072C2675F44C808F43AD2FE0@AM5PR0301MB2481.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a>>, Clay Quinn writes:<br>
><br>
> Hi All,<br>
><br>
> An oddball question - is anyone using services over Internet to Israel<br>
> (VPN etc), and if so what is your round-trip latency? From a Telstra TID<br>
> connection I'm getting around 400ms (Sydney, LA, New York, UK, France,<br>
> Israel). I'm curious if there's a less-latent path on another<br>
> provider/route (RDP sessions are painfully slow).<br>
<br>
SYD to TLV is 8813 great circle miles (14183km). This gives a lower<br>
bound on a terrestrial path unless you start drilling.<br>
<br>
> Using 30,000km as an estimate for the fibre distance, that gives a<br>
> theoretical minimum latency of 300ms (0.5us/km * 30,000km * both<br>
> directions). So there's an additional 100ms of overhead there (OEO<br>
> conversions probably - 30 hops in traceroute).<br>
><br>
> If that's par for the course, I guess WAN acceleration is really the only<br>
> option - I understand it's a pretty long path. If anyone has any unique<br>
> solutions to this problem I'd love to hear it.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
> Clay<br>
><br>
> Clay Quinn<br>
> Presales Engineer<br>
> MRV Communications Pty Ltd.<br>
> Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B61%20427%20339%20000" target="_blank">+61 427 339 000</a> | Email:
<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com" target="_blank">cquinn@mrv.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:cquinn@mrv.com" target="_blank">cquinn@mrv.com</a>><br>
> Skype: clayquinn | Web: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mrv.com&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=eZl4Gt57uiVTIe53ydQ6FcjXj01VyJiGhdto2C_4SlI&s=0AFwGRL4HQ5ac2E54zC6V7iPQ-HCJCbS4yrHg5IN4xo&e=" target="_blank">
www.mrv.com</a><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mrv.com_&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=eZl4Gt57uiVTIe53ydQ6FcjXj01VyJiGhdto2C_4SlI&s=AMkJeLxhEZwRSk5xI3b_CzNfib3FjN7RyrELnGkXYwI&e=" target="_blank">http://www.mrv.com/</a>><br>
><br>
> [Screen Shot 2016-02-01 at 10.11.23]<br>
><br>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#B8B9C8">MRV Communications is a global supplier of packet and optical solutions that power the world’s largest networks. Our products combine innovative hardware
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<p style="mso-line-height-alt:8.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#B8B9C8">MRV Communications is a global supplier of packet and optical solutions that power the world’s largest networks. Our products combine
innovative hardware with intelligent software to make networks smarter, faster and more efficient.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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