[AusNOG] Internet companies forced to block The Pirate Bay, bittorrent websites in Australia, Federal Court rules

Tue Dec 20 13:18:28 EST 2016

I would suggest that ISPs are still liable for the consequences of their
actions, and the court order doesn't indemnify them, if from a range of
options, they choose disastrously. The ASIC case was interesting because
the ISPs begged ASIC not to do this, but in that instance, the decision was
ASIC's, and the ISPs had no choice.

Kind regards

Paul Wilkins

On 20 December 2016 at 13:13, Nick Stallman <nick at agentpoint.com> wrote:

> You could if you announced the /32 internally and had your own server set
> up for the IP?
>
> I wonder if a ISP (e.g. TPG) could be vindictive enough to make the
> court's decision backfire deliberately?
> E.g. deliberately block the Cloudflare IP in line with the court's
> recommendation, not bending the rules at all but doing it with the
> intention that it'll affect other Cloudflare users and cause headlines
> against the court decision?
>
> Just like ASIC back-pedalled very quickly when it was exposed that they
> blocked thousands of sites instead of just one.
>
> The only thing stopping it is ISP's actually choosing to not affect other
> Cloudflare users. The court decision allows for the worst case.
>
> On 20/12/16 13:06, Paul Wilkins wrote:
>
> Furthermore, there is a requirement that blocked websites be redirected to
> a server displaying a notification of the block.
>
> So though IP blocking is mentioned in the court order as an available
> option, you cannot in fact comply in full with the court order via an IP
> blocking mechanism.
>
> I am not a lawyer. This is not expert opinion.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
> On 20 December 2016 at 12:59, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The ISP parties to the judgement have a choice, block by IP, DNS, or URI.
>>
>> Now no one is going to block by URI or IP, when they can redirect from
>> their DNS server. There is no responsibility to block DNS from 3rd party
>> servers.
>>
>> I am not a lawyer. This is not expert opinion.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Paul Wilkins
>>
>> On 20 December 2016 at 12:43, Damien Gardner Jnr <rendrag at rendrag.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't the court order specifically say they were to do DNS blocking?
>>> Why are there articles suggesting they are going to block cloudflare?  Just
>>> for shock value?
>>>
>>> On 20 December 2016 at 12:42, Bradley Amm <brad at bradleyamm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.playerattack.com/news/2016/12/16/92893/aussie-pi
>>>> rate-bay-ban-massive-collateral-damage/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Jay
>>>> Dixon
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, 19 December 2016 7:23 AM
>>>> *To:* Chris Ford
>>>>
>>>> *Cc:* ausnog at ausnog.net
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Internet companies forced to block The Pirate
>>>> Bay, bittorrent websites in Australia, Federal Court rules
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i love that the byproduct of this court case is a comprehensive list of
>>>> all the good torrent sites and mirrors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Chris Ford <
>>>> chris.ford at inaboxgroup.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been following this here https://s115a.com/cases/current
>>>>
>>>> From my skim of the lists the respondents to the actions all roll up to
>>>> Telstra, Optus, Vocus or TPG). I didn't see any independent ISPs listed. So
>>>> unless you are a group company of the Big 4 you won’t be a recipient of the
>>>> orders, and if you are, I'm sure you are already well aware of what is
>>>> going on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
>>>> Mark Newton
>>>> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 2:41 PM
>>>> To: Ross Wheeler <ausnog at rossw.net>
>>>> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Internet companies forced to block The Pirate
>>>> Bay, bittorrent websites in Australia, Federal Court rules
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Ross Wheeler <ausnog at rossw.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, 15 Dec 2016, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The Federal Court has ordered internet companies to block five
>>>> copyright-infringing websites, including torrent website The Pirate Bay.
>>>> >
>>>> > So, the next questions are:
>>>> > * who tells us ISPs officially, what we have to block?
>>>>
>>>> A court order.
>>>>
>>>> > * when do they tell us.
>>>>
>>>> After you have been named as a respondent in a Federal Court action,
>>>> and been presented with an order.
>>>>
>>>> > * does it only apply to the big-few, or everyone?
>>>>
>>>> It applies to everyone who is named as a respondent in a Federal Court
>>>> action under s115a and has subsequently received a court order.
>>>>
>>>> > * if the previous answer is "everyone", who do we bill,
>>>> >   and do we have to "trust them" that it'll be paid, or can
>>>> >   we just send them the bill and not do anything until it is?
>>>>
>>>> The previous answer isn’t “everyone.” You bill the claimant. The
>>>> payment conditions will be in the court order.
>>>>
>>>> > The phrase "tilting at windmills" springs to mind.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, pointless exercise. Training Australians to use evasion methods;
>>>> once they’re doing that, further enforcement action is ineffective, so
>>>> driving them in that direction is practically indistinguishable from
>>>> saying, “Meh, don’t care anymore.”
>>>>
>>>> The overwhelming response I’ve seen to yesterday’s action is, “LOL.”
>>>> I’m encouraged by that.
>>>>
>>>>    - mark
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Damien Gardner Jnr
>>> VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
>>> rendrag at rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
>>> --
>>> We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
>>>  We ran to the sounds of thunder.
>>> We danced among the lightning bolts,
>>>  and tore the world asunder
>>>
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>>>
>>
>
>
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>
> --
> Nick Stallman
> TECNICAL DIRECTOR
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