<div dir="ltr"><div><div>I would suggest that ISPs are still liable for the consequences of their actions, and the court order doesn't indemnify them, if from a range of options, they choose disastrously. The ASIC case was interesting because the ISPs begged ASIC not to do this, but in that instance, the decision was ASIC's, and the ISPs had no choice.<br><br></div>Kind regards<br><br></div>Paul Wilkins<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 20 December 2016 at 13:13, Nick Stallman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nick@agentpoint.com" target="_blank">nick@agentpoint.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>You could if you announced the /32 internally and had your own
server set up for the IP?</p>
<p>I wonder if a ISP (e.g. TPG) could be vindictive enough to make
the court's decision backfire deliberately?<br>
E.g. deliberately block the Cloudflare IP in line with the court's
recommendation, not bending the rules at all but doing it with the
intention that it'll affect other Cloudflare users and cause
headlines against the court decision?</p>
<p>Just like ASIC back-pedalled very quickly when it was exposed
that they blocked thousands of sites instead of just one.</p>
<p>The only thing stopping it is ISP's actually choosing to not
affect other Cloudflare users. The court decision allows for the
worst case.<br>
</p><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577moz-cite-prefix">On 20/12/16 13:06, Paul Wilkins wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Furthermore, there is a requirement that blocked
websites be redirected to a server displaying a
notification of the block.<br>
<br>
</div>
So though IP blocking is mentioned in the court order as
an available option, you cannot in fact comply in full
with the court order via an IP blocking mechanism.<br>
<br>
</div>
I am not a lawyer. This is not expert opinion.<br>
<br>
</div>
Kind regards<br>
<br>
</div>
Paul Wilkins<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 December 2016 at 12:59, Paul
Wilkins <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paulwilkins369@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulwilkins369@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>The ISP parties to the judgement have a choice,
block by IP, DNS, or URI.<br>
<br>
</div>
Now no one is going to block by URI or IP, when they
can redirect from their DNS server. There is no
responsibility to block DNS from 3rd party servers.<br>
<br>
</div>
I am not a lawyer. This is not expert opinion.<br>
<br>
</div>
Kind regards<span class="m_-2605677201238776577HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Paul Wilkins<br>
</font></span></div>
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 December 2016 at 12:43,
Damien Gardner Jnr <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Didn't the court order specifically
say they were to do DNS blocking? Why are there
articles suggesting they are going to block
cloudflare? Just for shock value?</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 December 2016
at 12:42, Bradley Amm <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brad@bradleyamm.com" target="_blank">brad@bradleyamm.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-AU">
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704m_-8648595327393378564WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="https://www.playerattack.com/news/2016/12/16/92893/aussie-pirate-bay-ban-massive-collateral-damage/" target="_blank">https://www.playerattack.com/n<wbr>ews/2016/12/16/92893/aussie-pi<wbr>rate-bay-ban-massive-collatera<wbr>l-damage/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.a<wbr>usnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Dixon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 19 December
2016 7:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Ford</span></p>
<div>
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG]
Internet companies forced to
block The Pirate Bay, bittorrent
websites in Australia, Federal
Court rules</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">i love
that the byproduct of this
court case is a
comprehensive list of all
the good torrent sites and
mirrors.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon,
Dec 19, 2016 at 10:13 AM,
Chris Ford <<a href="mailto:chris.ford@inaboxgroup.com.au" target="_blank">chris.ford@inaboxgroup.com.au</a><wbr>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I've
been following this here <a href="https://s115a.com/cases/current" target="_blank">
https://s115a.com/cases/curren<wbr>t</a><br>
<br>
From my skim of the lists
the respondents to the
actions all roll up to
Telstra, Optus, Vocus or
TPG). I didn't see any
independent ISPs listed.
So unless you are a group
company of the Big 4 you
won’t be a recipient of
the orders, and if you
are, I'm sure you are
already well aware of what
is going on.<br>
<br>
<br>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704m_-8648595327393378564im">-----Original
Message-----</span><br>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704m_-8648595327393378564im">From:
AusNOG [mailto:<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.a<wbr>usnog.net</a>]
On Behalf Of Mark Newton</span><br>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704m_-8648595327393378564im">Sent:
Friday, 16 December 2016
2:41 PM</span><br>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704m_-8648595327393378564im">To:
Ross Wheeler <<a href="mailto:ausnog@rossw.net" target="_blank">ausnog@rossw.net</a>></span><br>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704m_-8648595327393378564im">Cc:
<a href="mailto:ausnog@ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@ausnog.net</a></span><br>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704m_-8648595327393378564im">Subject:
Re: [AusNOG] Internet
companies forced to
block The Pirate Bay,
bittorrent websites in
Australia, Federal Court
rules</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Dec 15, 2016, at 4:56
PM, Ross Wheeler <<a href="mailto:ausnog@rossw.net" target="_blank">ausnog@rossw.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Thu, 15 Dec
2016, Nathan
Brookfield wrote:<br>
><br>
>> The Federal
Court has ordered
internet companies to
block five
copyright-infringing
websites, including
torrent website The
Pirate Bay.<br>
><br>
> So, the next
questions are:<br>
> * who tells us
ISPs officially, what
we have to block?<br>
<br>
A court order.<br>
<br>
> * when do they
tell us.<br>
<br>
After you have been
named as a respondent
in a Federal Court
action, and been
presented with an
order.<br>
<br>
> * does it only
apply to the big-few,
or everyone?<br>
<br>
It applies to everyone
who is named as a
respondent in a
Federal Court action
under s115a and has
subsequently received
a court order.<br>
<br>
> * if the previous
answer is "everyone",
who do we bill,<br>
> and do we have
to "trust them" that
it'll be paid, or can<br>
> we just send
them the bill and not
do anything until it
is?<br>
<br>
The previous answer
isn’t “everyone.” You
bill the claimant. The
payment conditions
will be in the court
order.<br>
<br>
> The phrase
"tilting at windmills"
springs to mind.<br>
<br>
Yes, pointless
exercise. Training
Australians to use
evasion methods; once
they’re doing that,
further enforcement
action is ineffective,
so driving them in
that direction is
practically
indistinguishable from
saying, “Meh, don’t
care anymore.”<br>
<br>
The overwhelming
response I’ve seen to
yesterday’s action is,
“LOL.” I’m encouraged
by that.<br>
<br>
- mark<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/ausnog</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br>
<div class="m_-2605677201238776577m_8995524288480601038m_-9051833280810961704gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>Damien Gardner Jnr<br>
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust<br>
<a href="mailto:rendrag@rendrag.net" target="_blank">rendrag@rendrag.net</a>
- <span><a href="http://www.rendrag.net/" target="_blank">http://www.rendrag.net/</a><u><br>
</u></span>--<br>
We rode on the winds of the rising
storm,<br>
We ran to the sounds of thunder.<br>
We danced among the lightning bolts,<br>
and tore the world asunder</p>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/ausnog</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-2605677201238776577mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
AusNOG mailing list
<a class="m_-2605677201238776577moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a>
<a class="m_-2605677201238776577moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div class="m_-2605677201238776577moz-signature">-- <br>
<table style="width:100%;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;color:#666" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="font-size:12pt;font-weight:bold;color:#00ccff">Nick
Stallman</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:5pt 0 8pt;font-weight:bold">TECNICAL
DIRECTOR</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:7pt 0 10pt;border-top:1px solid #eaeaea">
<table style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding-right:5pt"><img style="display:block" src="cid:part23.589F4545.BEA1A043@agentpoint.com" alt="Email" width="16" height="auto"></td>
<td><a style="color:#9a9a9a;text-decoration:none" href="mailto:nick@agentpoint.com" title="nick@agentpoint.com" target="_blank">nick@agentpoint.com</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding-right:5pt"><img style="display:block" src="cid:part25.F58FBE76.791F035D@agentpoint.com" alt="Website" width="16" height="auto"></td>
<td><a style="color:#9a9a9a;text-decoration:none" href="https://www.agentpoint.com.au/" title="Agentpoint" target="_blank">www.agentpoint.com.au</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:5pt;background:#66ccff">
<table style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left"><a href="https://www.agentpoint.com.au/" title="Agentpoint" target="_blank"><img style="display:block" src="cid:part27.2C41A716.72CE387D@agentpoint.com" alt="Agentpoint" width="100" height="auto" border="0"></a></td>
<td align="right"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/Agentpoint/" title="Instagram" target="_blank"><img src="cid:part29.2040B8A9.AD3341E8@agentpoint.com" alt="Instagram" border="0"></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/agentpoint" title="Twitter" target="_blank"><img src="cid:part31.BBA51579.C1E6E9CA@agentpoint.com" alt="Twitter" border="0"></a> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/agentpoint/" title="Facebook" target="_blank"><img src="cid:part33.BEE9BD78.83FF238B@agentpoint.com" alt="Facebook" border="0"></a> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>