[AusNOG] NBN Q

[Philip Loenneker]

Thanks Joe, Chris and John for your replies, that matches what I thought.

For those doing this, are you matching the exact bitrate speed of each service in queues, or going under by some value? If you’re going under the advertised line rate, by how much?

DHCP (or PPPoE) + RADIUS seems to me to be the most logical way (for humans) to do this, so that you can adjust the config in the user identity rather than on an interface, though I suspect you would need to get the client to reconnect for any changes to apply.

PS Sorry Dino for hijacking your thread – hopefully this is useful for you regardless

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Chris Gibbs
Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015 9:11 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBN Q

I typically police on the CVC aggregate, shape on the customer vlan and shape on the CPE device.

At least I knew when drops were occurring and did not have to bother NBN Co.

The NFAS technical guide has all this information in it if you have a little time on your hands to have a read. I found it an excellent resource.

On 14 October 2015 at 08:58, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au<mailto:joe at apcs.com.au>> wrote:
You are correct, from what I have heard. They 'Police' the link rather than 'Shape' the link, i.e. once the AVC limit is reached (12/1, 25/5 etc), the packets on top are dropped rather than queued for delivery. This means NBNCo's routers would have to do a lot less work, so to avoid packet loss, dropped packets etc for customers who max out their link it is a good idea to do queuing on your own termination end.

On 14/10/15 08:52, Philip Loenneker wrote:
As a kind of side note to this, I’ve heard that the traffic shaping method by NBN Co is less than ideal (I recall something about dropping packets instead of queuing but can’t remember details), and that ISPs should put traffic shaping rules on their own equipment to avoid performance issues on the links. I did a bit of a Google on the topic but am probably using the wrong terminology to find anything useful. Does anyone have any more information they could share on this?

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of paul+ausnog at oxygennetworks.com.au<mailto:paul+ausnog at oxygennetworks.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:40 AM
To: 'Dino Sosic' <Dino.Sosic at datacom.com.au><mailto:Dino.Sosic at datacom.com.au>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBN Q

Sorry, meant to say AVC ID in the last bit ☺

Regards
Paul

From: Dino Sosic [mailto:Dino.Sosic at datacom.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:38 AM
To: Paul Julian; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: RE: [AusNOG] NBN Q

Thanks guys. I thought it would be something like that, but not a lot of info out there specific for NBN services. ☺

From: Paul Julian [mailto:paul at oxygennetworks.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:05 AM
To: Dino Sosic <Dino.Sosic at datacom.com.au<mailto:Dino.Sosic at datacom.com.au>>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: RE: [AusNOG] NBN Q

Hi Dino, some ISP’s do it different to others, some use PPPOE, some use DHCP, it just depends on what they want to do.

For an NBN directly connected ISP they take a VLAN from NBN for each CVC on each POI they connect to, then each customer is allocated a VLAN within the CVC VLAN, so you have layer 2 separation between customers, really whether you use PPPOE or DHCP there is no difference to separation, it’s a matter of choice for ISP’s, unless they use an aggregator which only offers one option like Telstra Wholesale, at present they run their wholesale NBN network over the top of their retail NBN network, they only offer DHCP.

Regarding the auth, there is no auth when using DHCP necessariy, but you can use radius and DHCP to do it if you want, then just do the accounting based on the IP they are allocated, you can also allocate IP based on the CVC ID which is presented by NBN, you can set that up as a radius check attribute so that you can control various aspects of the session at connection time.

Regards
Paul

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Dino Sosic
Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:28 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: [AusNOG] NBN Q

Hi guys,

Quick question about the NBN deployment. I am looking for a technical answer here. Some NBN services give you a public IP via DHCP and they push a default route with it. How are the customers separated and how is the same IP leased to the same NBN endpoint every time? Is this something that is different from ISP to ISP or? There is no auth on the endpoint, and it can’t be the MAC either.

I’m surprised how little people/engineers really know about the fine works of NBN deployment. ( especially the ISP engineers )

Thanks,

Dino

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