[AusNOG] Fwd: [Internet Australia - members] Net neutrality

Tue Nov 24 16:46:12 EST 2015

Consider:

 - A CDN represents a considerable private investment in infrastructure.
The benefits are passed to the customer at no cost to them. Smaller players
may not like it, but it will happen, because the big players want it to
happen, and there's a clear benefit to the majority of customers. The best
argument against CDNs is that giving something away for free amounts to an
antitrust action. Good luck with that.

 - QoS - net neutrality never answers the question, if you prioritise
traffic, who pays? And without funding, you'll never get QoS in the
internet backbone. This is a huge impediment for voice and video.

 - TCP vs UDP - TCP is social. It plays by the rules. UDP elbows its way
through. There's no choice here. Eventually there will be different
treatment within the backbone of TCP vs UDP. People will be willing to pay
for uncongested UDP bandwidth, and people will be happy to route it, at a
price.

 - Content vs "services". If you provide a service, you get remunerated for
that by the customer, and consequently, you're willing to pay for bandwidth
as a business expense. So service providers would typically benefit from
transit QoS. If you provide content, your business model is based around
advertising, and there's no mechanism to pass charges to customers. In fact
your business relies on content being free. If services traffic is
prioritised over yours, it hurts your business. Either you accept that,
fight for net neutrality, or you build a CDN.

 - DOS. In light of the persistence of DOS attacks, and the failure to find
workable solutions beyond service providers with excess capacity,
eventually there will be demand for capacity that's not subject to attacks.
So there's another category of service, that's not "net neutral".

 - Security. Currently, a disproportionate number of attacks emanate from
identifiable network prefixes. Net neutrality means this traffic is just as
entitled to carriage as legitimate traffic. Call it the tragedy of the
commons, but it would be a huge benefit to legitimate users if there were
social  boundaries between legitimate and illegitimate traffic.

Obviously longer term there is going to be a negotiation around charges for
transit QoS that balances the needs of customers, service providers,
content providers, and one of the fundamental underlying principles of the
internet, that net neutrality encourages open communications and
innovation, whereas monopolisation of transit would stifle them.

To conclude, I doubt an argument against CDNs can be won. I do think all
TCP should be equal priority. But it should be possible to charge a premium
for UDP transit (which won't be CDN traffic).

Kind regards

Paul Wilkins

On 24 November 2015 at 09:27, Skeeve Stevens <skeeve+ausnog at theispguy.com>
wrote:

> You guys need infographics :)
>
>
> ...Skeeve
>
>
> --
>
> Skeeve Stevens - The ISP Guy - Internet Provider SME
>
> Email: skeeve at theispguy.com ; Cell: +61(0)414 753 383
> Skype: skeeve; Blog: TheISPGuy.com <http://theispguy.com/> ; Facebook:
> TheISPGuy <https://www.facebook.com/theispguy>
>
> Linkedin: /in/skeeve <http://www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve> ; Expert360:
> Profile <https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Vijay Sivaraman <vijay at unsw.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Laurie, Skeeve, and everyone,
>>
>> I would like to weigh in (as an academic) on the net neutrality
>> discussion – we have recently authored a position paper that surveys
>> perspectives from around the world.
>>
>> This is to appear in the ACM Computer Communications Review (CCR) journal
>> in Jan 2016, and is freely available at:
>> http://www2.ee.unsw.edu.au/~vijay/pubs/jrnl/16ccr.pdf
>>
>> I am most welcome to any comments on our article, including pertinent
>> things that we may have omitted, and your views on what we (the research
>> community) can do to shape the net neutrality debate in Australia.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Vijay
>>
>> From: Skeeve Stevens <skeeve+ausnog at theispguy.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, 24 November 2015 8:48 am
>> To: AusNOG Mailing List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
>> Subject: [AusNOG] Fwd: [Internet Australia - members] Net neutrality
>>
>> So,
>>
>> Ziggy wants to have a discussion about Net Neutrality.  Well, he should
>> join Ausnog where everyone is and have that discussion.
>>
>> My first opinion is that no, the NBN should not have a right at all to
>> decide on whether OTT companies are charged extra. He is free to have an
>> opinion like anyone else on the discussion - but not a right to decide at
>> all.
>>
>> But NBN is one of the biggest reasons that the OTT players like Netflix
>> are an issue because of the costs of their CVCs.
>>
>> I think the debate at the moment should more be about the government
>> writing off the NBN as an asset so they don't have to do cost recovery and
>> should be able to eliminate the CVC charges entirely.
>>
>>
>> ...Skeeve
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Skeeve Stevens - The ISP Guy - Internet Provider SME
>>
>> Email: skeeve at theispguy.com
>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=skeeve@theispguy.com> ; Cell:
>> +61(0)414 753 383
>> Skype: skeeve; Blog: TheISPGuy.com <http://theispguy.com/> ; Facebook:
>> TheISPGuy <https://www.facebook.com/theispguy>
>>
>> Linkedin: /in/skeeve <http://www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve> ; Expert360:
>> Profile <https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9>
>>
>>
>> From: Laurie Patton <ceo at internet.org.au
>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=ceo@internet.org.au>>
>> Date: Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 8:18 AM
>> Subject: [Internet Australia - members] Net neutrality
>> To: members at lists.internet.org.au
>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=members@lists.internet.org.au>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts please…
>>
>>
>>
>> NBN chairman Ziggy Switkowski wants to talk about net neutrality | So
>> does @internetAUS <https://twitter.com/internetAUS> - this affects
>> everyone.
>> http://www.theage.com.au/business/nbn-chairman-ziggy-switkowski-wants-to-talk-about-net-neutrality-20151121-gl4s8n.html …
>> <https://t.co/1mloBEJpPe>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *LAURIE PATTON*
>>
>> Chief Executive Officer | Internet Australia
>>
>>
>>
>> *“Helping Shape Our Internet Future” *
>>
>>
>>
>> Phone: 0418-777700
>>
>> Twitter: @LJPatton
>>
>> LinkedIn: *http://linkd.in/LauriePatton <http://linkd.in/LauriePatton>*
>>
>> Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Patton
>>
>> Website: www.internet.org.au
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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