[AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs letter to Ministers
Paul Brooks
pbrooks-ausnog at layer10.com.au
Wed Mar 25 10:51:51 EST 2015
If you are subject to the Privacy Act, then keeping the identifiable data for that
long may well already be in breach of the Privacy Act.
Maybe have a look at that. I wouldn't be advertising it too widely - we're encouraging
users to ask their ISPs how long they keep data records for now, and increasingly they
will be choosing ISPs that keep the records for the shortest time, not the longest.
You might also ask your accountant whether RADIUS logs are required to substantiate
financial accounts. IANAL, and IANAAccountant either, but (depending on your charging
model) I would have expected the customer invoices to be sufficient to substantiate
the income, the customer contracts sufficient to justify sending the invoices. RADIUS
not required.
On 24/03/2015 10:41 PM, Matt Perkins wrote:
> Yes the deletion thing is just weird. Considering our company has for example
> radius logs which match IP to customers that go back 12 years! They are going to
> make us delete data we already have. I hope I dont miss a backup and wind up paying
> back all my grant money in fines. More to the point. Dont I have a tax obligation to
> keep those records longer then 2 years.
>
> Anyway im gong to get a bex and have a good lie down before I make anymore
> commitments for the next party :)
>
> Matt
>
>
> On 24/03/2015 10:36 pm, Paul Julian wrote:
>>
>> Mate I agree, but they want us to “think” that they have taken it into account and
>> will help pay for the costs, whatever they might be, which we still won’t know
>> until a set agenda and plan is actually drawn up as the new legislation and enforced.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think as discussed here, one of the only ways we may be able to recover some
>> costs is to charge for access to the data.
>>
>> The other interesting thing I saw in the amendments was that ISP’s will be forced
>> to delete the data after the mandatory retention period, this will be interesting
>> as to how they think they can enforce that, just one of many complicating issues I
>> think though.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Matt Perkins [mailto:matt at spectrum.com.au]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:32 PM
>> *To:* Paul Julian; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs letter to Ministers
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul,
>> Im sure that will work fine for the big guys. But as there is a written agreement
>> (code for secret agreement) It's unlikely we will ever know how much each of us
>> will get. Im still betting on Zero. Im sure just all the work it will take to get
>> $1 will add up to more then the costs of implementing the proposed retention system
>> for most small CSP's
>>
>> Matt.
>>
>> On 24/03/2015 10:27 pm, Paul Julian wrote:
>>
>> Directly from the amendments Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> 187KB Commonwealth must make a grant of financial assistance to service providers
>>
>> (1) The Commonwealth must make a grant of financial assistance to a service
>> provider for the purpose of assisting the service provider to comply with the
>> additional costs that service provider’s incur in complying with the service
>> provider’s obligations under this Part.
>>
>> (2) The terms and conditions on which that financial assistance is granted are
>> to be set out in a written agreement between the Commonwealth and the service
>> provider.
>>
>> (3) An agreement under subsection (2) may be entered into on behalf of the
>> Commonwealth by the Minister.
>>
>> [costs must be paid]
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Matt Perkins
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:24 PM
>> *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net <mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs letter to Ministers
>>
>>
>>
>> Ha,
>> If we see one cent I would be very surprised . The money they are talking
>> about im sure is all earmarked for regulation and enforcement of the new
>> regime. As well as education inside government for access seekers as to what
>> info they can get.
>>
>> Oh not to forget the TV Ad campaign telling the public why we need it.
>>
>> Wasn't this government committed to slashing read tape. I guess just another lie.
>>
>> If we see one cent in compensation other then the normal tax deductions I will
>> dance naked on a table at the next IXAU drinks. - Come to think of it that's
>> not much of a threat - disregard my last.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On 24/03/2015 10:16 pm, Mark Newton wrote:
>>
>> No. Brandis was asked about that tonight in the Senate. He says it's
>> cabinet-in-confidence, and a matter for the budget.
>>
>>
>>
>> They're going to wing it.
>>
>>
>>
>> - mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 10:10 pm, Russell Langton <russell3901 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:russell3901 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> /Apologies if this is general knowledge, but havn't seen anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> Following the previous industry letter, is there any confirmation about
>> the breakdown in costs of who will pay?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Geordie Guy <elomis at gmail.com
>> <mailto:elomis at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The bill will pass tonight. Much, much too little, much, much too late.
>>
>> With any luck someone will pass an ammendment to cover the costs of
>> AusNOG subscribers ordering new business cards with "Government Storage
>> Administrator" as the title.
>>
>> Well done guys.
>>
>> On 24/03/2015 7:47 PM, "Shane Chrisp" <shane at 2000cn.com.au
>> <mailto:shane at 2000cn.com.au>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thought this may be of interest to those who have not seen it.
>>
>> Regards
>> Shane
>>
>>
>> Go dark
>> <https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email>
>>
>> Shane –
>>
>> It's happening. The Government's data retention scheme looks set to
>> pass the Senate tonight, with Labor's support. If this happens,
>> it's a terrible outcome for Australians, and the media and
>> whistleblowers who keep us informed.
>>
>> This scheme is rushed, costly, ineffective, and against the public
>> interest. A lazy amendment from the ALP - purportedly to prevent
>> this dodgy data bill from having a freezing effect on the media -
>> has as many holes in it as a slice of Swiss cheese. It leaves
>> journalists and whistleblowers largely unprotected,^1 and will see
>> every one of us treated as a potential suspect. Essentially, it
>> punishes the wrong people. But as the Government and Labor team up
>> to rush the legislation through the Senate, we have a way of
>> getting their attention by illustrating just how problematic this
>> bill really is.
>>
>> *Can you join us in 'going dark' against data retention tomorrow to
>> protest the Government's dangerous and ineffective scheme?
>> <https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email>*
>>
>>
>> The message we're sending is clear. In its haste to rush these
>> broad sweeping laws, *the Government's costly scheme has targeted
>> all of us while ignoring just how easy it is to circumvent data
>> retention.* The truth is, anyone who wants to protect their privacy
>> (yes, this includes people with something to hide) has a huge range
>> of perfectly legal options to do so, including simply avoiding
>> Australian service providers. Now that's just bad for business!
>>
>> The impact of this is that Australians familiar with technology
>> will easily be able to protect their data, while those that aren't
>> as comfortable with newer technology will bear the brunt of the
>> risks associated with data retention.
>>
>> *Across Australia tomorrow, citizens will be showing the government
>> and Labor that this law will be another costly white elephant that
>> doesn't make us any safer.*
>>
>> *Click here to sign up and learn how to go dark:
>> http://www.getup.org.au/dark
>> <https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email>*
>>
>>
>> Alycia, for the GetUp team.
>>
>> PS: If you've just got a moment, *change your Facebook and Twitter
>> profile picture to this image to help spread the word.
>> <http://cdn.getup.org.au/991-PROF-PIC-%281%29-%281%29.jpg?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email>*
>>
>>
>> PPS: Even the Government's Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull
>> understands how important metadata is and how easy it is to avoid
>> scrutiny. He has fessed up to using an instant messaging app which
>> avoids retention, and joked last year that private networks (VPNs)
>> could be used to circumvent data retention laws. By contrast, our
>> Prime Minister recalls never being that worried about metadata back
>> when he was a journalist in the 1980's... at a time that pre-dated
>> widespread internet and mobile phone use.^2 Go figure!
>>
>> /References/
>>
>> [1] Data retention plan amended for journalists, but is it enough?
>> The Conversation, 20th March 2015.
>> [2] Data retention: Journalists' union labels Tony Abbott's defence
>> of metadata protections 'ludicrous', ABC News, Wednesday 18th March
>> 2015.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> /* Matt Perkins
>>
>> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
>>
>> Office 1300 133 299 matt at spectrum.com.au <mailto:matt at spectrum.com.au>
>>
>> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
>>
>> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at http://pgp.mit.edu
>>
>> */
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> /* Matt Perkins
>> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
>> Office 1300 133 299 matt at spectrum.com.au <mailto:matt at spectrum.com.au>
>> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
>> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at http://pgp.mit.edu
>> */
>
>
> --
> /* Matt Perkins
> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
> Office 1300 133 299 matt at spectrum.com.au
> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at http://pgp.mit.edu
> */
>
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